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This is a post that happend a while ago in Newsmax.com when it still had a
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
May 31, 2002 04:47 PM
This is a big deal, one of the Richest Families in the world who have
been working toward Global Government is just saying it right out front.
They have a flag and Great seal and Consit. etc The com site is Rockefeller
communications, now I'm I mistaken that this is THE Rockefeller family
saying this stuff?
Look at the site a bit, you'll be sick, I don't think its a joke, because
its what they have been planning for years and its a Rockefeller site.
http://www.rockefeller.com.au/gn/index.html
Don't forget the monument
http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
1990 February 28 President Bush in fund raising speech in SF
"Time and agian in this century, the political map of the world was
transformed. And in each instance, a new world order came about through the
advent of a new tyrant or the outbreak of a bloody global war, or its end.
July 20 1992 Time magizine publishes"The Birth of the Global Nation" by
Strobe Talbot,who is a Rhodes, roommate of Bill Clinton,CFR
directot,Carnegie Endowment, and a Trilateralist. In it he writes:
All countries are basically social arrangements...No matter how permanent or
even sacred they seem at any on time, in fact they are all artificial and
temporary...Perhaps national sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after
all...But it has taken the events in our own wonderous terrible century to
clinch the case for world government.
(Both quotes out of Secret Records Revealed NUV. Dennis Cuddy Ph.D)
NOW THEY JUST SAY IT... in the open
The Federation of
GLOBAL NATION
BASIC POLICIES
A one world federation government:
" It must succeed for poor and rich alike. It must deliver rights no less
than riches. It must provide social justice and equity no less than economic
prosperity and enhanced communication."
- Kofi Annan, Secretary General of the United Nations
THE FEDERATION OF GLOBAL NATION: WHY DO WE NEED IT?
Accountability: It will make Regional Governments, that is, the
government of your own country, more accountable for their administration
over the people. Regional Governments that become prone to corruption and
mismanagement will be dissolved and replaced with fresh new Governments that
work for the people.
Universal Security and Defence Forces: The Federation will absorb all
defence and security forces from all the Regional Governments and bind them
into one Imperial Force. The Federation maintains the complex issues of
operations and procedures involved in running these forces. This frees
Regional Governments from the burdens of defence and security and allows
them to concentrate entirely on the domestic policies. Enabling them to
serve you better.
Unified civil and criminal law: Under universal law, no matter where you
go to in the world you will know what’s legal and what isn’t. These laws
will be just and fair. The federation places high values and care not just
on a select few but on every human being. The federation constitution
demands equality for all people of all races, colour or creed.
No Death penalty: There will be no death penalty in the federation.
People who commit murder and other crimes against humanity will be exiled to
offshore penal colonies for the rest of their lives. While Security forces
will patrol these penal islands, all other costs associated with the
maintenance and upkeep of prisons and their inmates will no longer effect
the taxpayer. The penal islands will have basic infrastructure to support
inmate farms to allow inmates to fend for themselves.
Universal Taxation: Under the federation there will be a standard across
board taxation system. Anyone earning under $30,000 per year would pay a
5-10% income tax. Above that a flat tax of 20% would apply. Corporations
would pay 30%. There would be a ceiling on corporate income. A Corporation
that tripled its profits would have to pay 30% plus 5% for every multiple
over.
Global health services and Medicare System: A Federation Medicare System
shall be installed to provide comprehensive health care to all citizens.
Treatment shall be based on medical priority regardless of patients' income
and shall be financed out of a global Medicare taxation levy. Prescriptions
shall be subsidised to people on low incomes, children, expectant mothers,
pensioners and other groups. Under the Federation you will be treated with
the same high standards of health care when holidaying in Africa as you
would when in Australia or England. If you get sick while in another country
you will simply be able to check into a local doctor or hospital and be
treated with the same care and cover as if you were at home. Over the first
decade under the Federation the infrastructure of countries with poor or low
hospital conditions will be a priority and rebuilt by the Federation to the
high standards elsewhere in the world. No one will miss out.
Standardized education and Higher Education: Your degree in one country
will be the same as in another. You can work anywhere in the world in your
field without having to requalify.
A Global Currency: Currently " An unregulated global economy dominated by
corporations that recognize money as their only value is inherently unstable
... and is impoverishing humanity in real terms" - Dr. David C.Korten. A
Federation controlled one-world currency would eliminate currency
speculation and the massive problems associated with countries taking
advantage of other countries with weaker exchange rates. You would not lose
a cent in exchange when travelling, the inconveniences and frustrations of
forking out thousands of dollars to buy a couple of hundred dollars in
another country would vanish. One dollar here would be the same as a dollar
over there.
Oil and fossil fuels: One of the greatest problems associated with
poverty and war in this world is the manipulation of the oil fields and
other natural resources. At present greedy individuals, and companies
control these vital resources. While it is fair that countries and companies
should profit from the efforts of speculation, exploration, extraction and
refinery of these vital fuels - it is not viable at the expense of human
suffering that they should control, store and distribute such resources as
they see fit. Under the federation all post extracted resources will become
the property of the people and be distributed evenly by the Federation. High
oil prices will cease to exist. Oil and other fuels will be subject to low
holding and distribution levies. With the Federation controlling these
important elements, the preservation of our natural resources will be able
to be properly monitored and maintained.
Freedom of Movement: The citizens in the federation will become one
people and one nation allowing them to travel or migrate to any other
country in the Federation without hindrance or persecution. If you wanted to
move from Hong Kong and live and work in New Zealand to be with relatives or
friends you would be able to do so. People on low income, of less than
20,000 per year, would be able to apply for Federation Migration Transport
status once per year. On approval, which is subject to a Regional population
support level, individuals will be granted free federation transport whether
via land, sea or air to any destination in the Federation.
Environmental Controls and Alternative Energies: The Federation will
install universal environment controls. The Constitution demands the
preservation and stabilization of mother earth. To aid in this, the
federation will engage in scientific increase and creation of alternative
fuels and power systems. Coal and Nuclear power plants will become dinosaurs
of the past; the internal combustion engine will become an ancient machine.
All advanced technologies that were previously hindered by the power of oil
monopolies will be allowed to come into operation.
Natural Disasters: The death and mayhem associated with the natural
disasters that happen in our world today will be reduced considerably. A
global Emergency Service will immediately respond to victims of natural
disasters by rescuing people from the effected area, repairing the damage
and re-settling them back into the area if they choose so. The Federation
Emergency Services will monitor possible danger areas and alert citizens and
help evacuate before the events take full toll.
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 02, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 13, 2002).]
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drutherford
Senior Member
posted
June 01, 2002 03:39 PM
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
- George Orwell
And the Rockefeller animals will be the most equal of all.
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Drifter
Senior Member
posted
June 01, 2002 04:10 PM
Geeez, that article reads like a chapter from [i]Brave New World,
by Aldous Huxley. I thought at first you might have made it up, but then I
went to the website, and there it was.
We are
in trouble deep folks!
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Sgt. Zimm
Moderator
posted
June 01, 2002 04:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by drutherford:
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
- George Orwell
And the Rockefeller animals will be the most equal of all.
quote:
Four legs good, two legs bad!
Four legs good, two legs bad!
Four legs good, two legs bad!
Four legs good, two legs bad!
quote:
Four legs good, two legs better!
Four legs good, two legs better!
Four legs good, two legs better!
Four legs good, two legs better
Druth, I wonder which line the sheep will be bleating today?
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lucy
Senior Member
posted
June 01, 2002 05:18 PM
Why are so many socialists/communists the very ones who are rich as hell?
[This message has been edited by lucy (edited June 01, 2002).]
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Anastasia
Moderator
posted
June 01, 2002 07:52 PM
For once, drutherford, you hit the nail on the head.
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 02, 2002 01:52 PM
"A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the
all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers
control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they
love their servitude. To make them love it is the task assigned, in
present-day totalitarian states, to ministries of propaganda, newspaper
editors and schoolteachers.... The greatest triumphs of propaganda have been
accomplished, not by doing something, but by refraining from doing. Great is
truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about
truth."
Aldous Huxley Brave New World foreword to 1946 edition
quote:
Originally posted by Drifter:
Geeez, that article reads like a chapter from [i]Brave New World,
by Aldous Huxley. I thought at first you might have made it up, but then I
went to the website, and there it was.
We are
in trouble deep folks!
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 02, 2002 02:03 PM
"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like
a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like
the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created
screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil
interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to
as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international
bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish
purposes. They practically control both political parties." New York City
Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our
meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.
It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we
had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the
world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world
government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world
bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in
past centuries."
David Rockefeller Baden-Baden, Germany 1991
"We can see beyond the present shadows of war in the Middle East to a new
world order where the strong work together to deter and stop aggression.
This was precisely Franklin Roosevelt's and Winston Churchill's vision for
peace for the post-war period."
Richard Gephardt, in The Wall Street Journal (September 1990)
"We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest
or consent." Statement by Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member James
Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950
"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me
privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of
commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there
is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked,
so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath
when they speak in condemnation of it."
Woodrow Wilson,The New Freedom (1913)
"If we do not follow the dictates of our inner moral compass and stand up
for human life, then his lawlessness will threaten the peace and democracy
of the emerging new world order we now see, this long dreamed-of vision
we've all worked toward for so long."
President George Bush (January 1991)
"But it became clear as time went on that in Mr. Bush's mind the New
World Order was founded on a convergence of goals and interests between the
U.S. and the Soviet Union, so strong and permanent that they would work as a
team through the U.N. Security Council."
Excerpt from A. M. Rosenthal, in The New York Times (January 1991)
"I would support a Presidential candidate who pledged to take the
following steps: ... At the end of the war in the Persian Gulf, press for a
comprehensive Middle East settlement and for a 'new world order' based not
on Pax Americana but on peace through law with a stronger U.N. and World
Court."
George McGovern, in The New York Times (February 1991)
"... it's Bush's baby, even if he shares its popularization with
Gorbachev. Forget the Hitler 'new order' root; F.D.R. used the phrase
earlier."
William Safire, in The New York Times (February 1991)
"How I Learned to Love the New World Order" -- Article by Sen. Joseph R.
Biden, Jr. in Tthe Wall Street Journal (April 1992)
How to Achieve The New World Order -- Title of book excerpt by Henry
Kissinger, in Time magazine (March 1994)
"The Final Act of the Uruguay Round, marking the conclusion of the most
ambitious trade negotiation of our century, will give birth - in Morocco -
to the World Trade Organization, the third pillar of the New World Order,
along with the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund."
The "new world order that is in the making must focus on the creation of
a world of democracy, peace and prosperity for all."
Nelson Mandela, in The Philadelphia Inquirer (October 1994)
The renewal of the nonproliferation treaty was described as important "for
the welfare of the whole world and the new world order."
President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, in The New York Times (April 1995)
"Alchemy for a New World Order" -- article by Stephen John Stedman in
Foreign Affairs (May/June 1995)
"One-fourth of humanity must be eliminated from the social body. We are in
charge of God's selection process for planet earth. He selects, we destroy.
We are the riders of the pale horse, Death."
Psychologist Barbara Marx Hubbard - member and futurist/strategist of Task
Force Delta; a United States Army think tank.
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 02, 2002).]
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drutherford
Senior Member
posted
June 02, 2002 04:29 PM
"The laws of physics prescribe that for every action there is a
reaction."
Welcome to the club. Here's an address for you. The owner of the
rumormillnews.net website, Rayelan Allen, is used to this kind of thing.
She's probably been getting love notes like that for years. Send her that
e-mail, maybe she can give you some advice.
rumormillnews@rumormillnews.com
I found that site from a link posted on her forum:
http://www.rumormillnews.net/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=19894
I guess our misgivings have been confirmed. You can't fool everyone,
Amadeus.
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JayGatsby
Senior Member
posted
June 02, 2002 10:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
This is a big deal, one of the Richest Families in the world who have
been working toward Global Government is just saying it right out front.
They have a flag and Great seal and Consit. etc The com site is Rockefeller
communications, now I'm I mistaken that this is THE Rockefeller family
saying this stuff?
Look at the site a bit, you'll be sick, I don't think its a joke, because
its what they have been planning for years and its a Rockefeller site.
I wouldn't worry too much. It is from Austrailia and appears to be the work
of a rich but extremely bored person. Other websites under this 'name' show
equal 'passion' for the 'arts' and screen writing, oil, gas, space
exploration, etc., etc.
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lucy
Senior Member
posted
June 02, 2002 11:05 PM
Robo and Drutherford--
thanks, by the way.
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 03, 2002 11:13 AM
Thanks,,
,,,
yeah that line gives me the willies. I'll send it over to her, I think she
is here around Santa Cruz too.
thanks again

quote:
Originally posted by drutherford:
"The laws of physics prescribe that for every action there is a
reaction."
Welcome to the club. Here's an address for you. The owner of the
rumormillnews.net website, Rayelan Allen, is used to this kind of thing.
She's probably been getting love notes like that for years. Send her that
e-mail, maybe she can give you some advice.
rumormillnews@rumormillnews.com
I found that site from a link posted on her forum:
http://www.rumormillnews.net/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=19894
I guess our misgivings have been confirmed. You can't fool everyone,
Amadeus.
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 03, 2002 11:25 AM
No prob, make sure you tell a friend

quote:
Originally posted by lucy:
Robo and Drutherford--
thanks, by the way.
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 03, 2002 05:33 PM
They aren't just in Australia
meckley@attbi.com
The Honourable Michael James Eckley
Email
Representative for Ohio
Global Nation - North America
------------------------
GN1 - AUSTRALIA
Australia
The Honourable John Emile Mario Rayner
Party Secretary
Email
Representative of South Australia
Global Nation - Australia
The Honourable Mark O'Rourke
Email
Representative of Western Australia
Global Nation - Australia
The Honourable Amadeus Rockefeller
Party President
Email
Representative for Queensland
Global Nation - Australia
The Honourable Lord Peter Murray
Party Treasurer
Email
Representative for Tasmania
Global Nation - Australia
GN2 - NEW ZEALAND
New Zealand
The Honourable Murray Dunn
Email
Representative for Northland
Global Nation - New Zealand
GN3 - NORTH AMERICA
Canada
The Honourable Rebecca Godsalve
Email
Representative for Alberta
Global Nation - Canada
United States of America
The Honourable Michael James Eckley
Email
Representative for Ohio
Global Nation - North America
The Honourable Joseph Benjamin Stair
Email
Representative for Colorado
Global Nation - North America
The Honourable Debra Mohon
Email
Representative for Texas
Global Nation - North America
The Honourable Omar Benavides
Email
Representative for Florida
Global Nation - North America
GN4 - LATIN AMERICA
Representation pending
GN5 - WESTERN EUROPE
United Kingdom
The Honourable Geoffrey McNeil
Email
Represenative for Middlesbrough
Global Nation - England
GN6 - JAPAN
Representation pending
GN7 - EASTERN EUROPE
Representation pending
GN8 - AFRICA
South Africa
The Honourable Michael Orchard
Email
Representative for Cape Town
Global Nation - South Africa
GN9 - THE MIDDLE EAST
Representation pending
GN10 - ASIA & SOUTH EAST ASIA
Representation pending
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 05, 2002 03:23 PM
Golly what is this? Is it real? Golly
----- Original Message -----
From: Rockefeller Global Communications
To: GAPresident@un.org
Cc: Rockefeller Global Communications
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: AGENDA FOR THE NEW WORLD
To The General Assembly,
The time of the end is upon us. Like it or hate it, it's the destiny we
must all face. On September 11, 2001 the world was witness to the beginning
of the end. What we saw and experienced will be nothing compared to the
calamity that is to soon transpire. It is sad that so many lives have been
lost and yet so many more will be taken - but these things will continue to
happen as this old system begins to collapse.
No human government in existence now or since the ancient times have been
able to sustain a perfect order. Every government has failed and will fail.
They can not protect you. They can not give you a place where people are
truly free, where your neighbours are your family and foreigners are your
friends. No human government today can or will ever be able to achieve this.
That is why the Agenda was set. It has been referred to over time as
Armageddon. But be not fearful. It will not be a nuclear holocaust or some
stray asteroid from the heavens that will level our civilization.
In fact it's not the planet that will suffer and be swept away. It will
be the human inhabitants of this great planet who have no respect or genuine
regard for their fellow human beings. Each one of you over the next year
must do some very deep and sincere thinking. You need to ask yourself these
questions: Will I overcome my hatred for my fellowman or will I put aside my
differences and unite and care for my neighbour? Will I treat them with
kindness? Or will I continue to take advantage of them? When was the last
time you took a person off the street and gave them some food or helped them
find shelter for the night? Or sat beside someone on a bus, in a mall, on a
train and said "Hello". When did you last comfort a stranger who had lost
someone they loved. When was the last time you befriended someone not
because of their possessions or their wealth - but simply because you cared
about them? When was the last time you truly showed your human spirit and
heart to your fellowman?
None of the above is easy. It is hard. None of us are perfect. None of us
have had a good life. Some think that because we have suffered to some
degree that we deserve what ever we can get - even if it means hurting
another person in the process. But those who try and rise up against our
negative ways will survive and will be rewarded with a life on earth that
right now is only a dream. Only the meek will possess the earth. This is a
certainty.
The New System is coming. The only question is: Will you choose to be
there? Or will you continue to go down the road to self destruction. It's up
to you. The following Agenda is unavoidable and you will need to endure
through to survive and get there. So think deeply. It's your future. And may
you all do well.
Your Brother
A.I.Rockefeller
CEO
Rockefeller Global Communications
www.rockefeller.com.au
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 05, 2002 03:24 PM
OK site still there...whew
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 05, 2002).]
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 06, 2002 01:30 PM
Just in case you missed this

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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 06, 2002 06:56 PM
They are willing to kill,lie, destroy ...Whatever is needed to get the
job done, most people won't go to those extremes to get their way, but some
do.
quote:
Originally posted by lucy:
Why are so many socialists/communists the very ones who are rich as hell?
[This message has been edited by lucy (edited June 01, 2002).]
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 06, 2002 07:48 PM
You know if you have some data to disprove this site is related to the
Rockefellers I would like to see it.
If you read this and you are to scared to respond, think how you are going
to feel in a few years. If you're to scared to talk now, you will be to
scared later. so what it going to be, mice or men....?
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 10, 2002 03:51 PM
anyone got anymore info on this?
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 12, 2002 06:35 PM
http: //64.4.18.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=a311f43c247e7bfd750247f341280b52&lat=1023921230&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eetherzone%2ecom%2f2002%2fsees061802%2eshtml
But what about the domain?
I know they don't need the help, but they have to expose it to the public
sometime, Strobe didn't write that book for nothing.
They might not care anymore, for its to late now?
I find it funny that a company pops out of no where in 99, dealing with
communications, minerals and global security with the same name and domain
as the Rockefellers.
If this isn't Rockefeller this guy is a nut case, who do you know that sits
around creating global flags, global great seals and global constitutions?
Notice her domain .au
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 12, 2002).]
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curiousgirl
Senior Member
posted
June 12, 2002 08:17 PM
Robo, there you go scaring people again! I've checked out the sites and
hope many others do too. With the problems in the Catholic church, the end
of that religion doesn't seem too far off. The pope's health is
deteriorating and he'll be gone soon. I read somewhere that along with a
global g'ment, there'll also be a global religion. This is pretty darn
creepy. What do others think?
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historepeats
Senior Member
posted
June 12, 2002 09:37 PM
Are there any ties with Rockefeller and Monsanto?
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 13, 2002 11:42 AM
Well sure, here they are mocking God!
http://www.oasistv.com/recent.asp?story=http://www.oasistv.com/news/1-23-02-story-2.asp
Mikhail Gorbachev says its "our" new ten commmandments
http://www.lucistrust.org/
their Global Religion, which is being pushed via Lucis trust which was
called Lucifer Publishing, but they changed the name because it upset people
golly. they also run the Gaia Pray Room at the United Nations,
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a
pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take
a Luciferian Initiation."
David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations
If you look at the Flag and the great seal of this Rockefeller nuts site
they are Luciferic!
Whoopsie don't forget their goals in Stone:
http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
If Christians do not begin to fight this spiritual battle politically for
the soul of America, they or their children may be put in the same jeopardy
as the more than 110,000,000 other "politically incorrect" citizens who were
liquidated in Germany, Russia, and China alone in the 20th century, or the
half- to three-quarter-million Christians who were hacked to death in 1994
in Rwanda while informed leaders of the United Nations and the United States
remained silent and let it happen.
http://www.radioliberty.com/church.htm
quote:
Originally posted by curiousgirl:
Robo, there you go scaring people again! I've checked out the sites and
hope many others do too. With the problems in the Catholic church, the end
of that religion doesn't seem too far off. The pope's health is
deteriorating and he'll be gone soon. I read somewhere that along with a
global g'ment, there'll also be a global religion. This is pretty darn
creepy. What do others think?
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 13, 2002).]
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Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 13, 2002 11:48 AM
Sure, but I'd have to dig up some press on it.
quote:
Originally posted by historepeats:
Are there any ties with Rockefeller and Monsanto?
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curiousgirl
Senior Member
posted
June 13, 2002 05:10 PM
Whoa! The links are quite an eye-opener. Thanks for posting 'em, Robo.
The "Left Behind" book series did a pretty good job at fictional depiction
of this stuff. Or should I say, non-fiction?

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Chances
Senior Member
posted
June 13, 2002 05:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by curiousgirl:
Robo, there you go scaring people again! also be a global religion. This
is pretty darn creepy. What do others think?
Global Green Religion by Henry Lamb..."Paul Gorman Executive Director of
the Partnership NRPE, (National Religious Partnership for the
Environment)says ..how people of faith engage the environmental crisis will
have much to do with the future of the planet, and in all likelihood, with
the future of religious life as well.
You see, the global objectives are transformation of social order into a
global society organized around the notion that the earth itself is the
giver of life and that all world's religions are evolving into a state of
enlightment that recognizes GAIA as the true source of life and
spirituality.
These ideas, notions and such stem from the United Nations (check out
their web site) They are the ENVIRONMENTAL AUTHORITY THAT SETS THE GLOBAL
ENVIRONMENTAL AGENDA FROM THEIR NAIROBI DECLARATION.
UN wants to tax Americans---UN threw us off the Human Rights Commission,
UN will hold hearings on the Reparations for Slavery and determine if we
should pay (even though slavery is still practiced in Africa today)
The UN has sold orphans from Africa into sex rings in assorted countries.
The UN wanted to go in to Jenin to determine the extent of Sharron's war
crimes.
The UN cannot account or at least explain where collected monies went after
9/11
It's time to get out of this crooked organization.
Funny how environmentalists haven't made Mexico clean up their terra firma.
Trash is everywhere.
Are they after a takeover of the most powerful nation on earth?
IP:
Logged
historepeats
Senior Member
posted
June 13, 2002 08:47 PM
This doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with Rockefeller or Monsanto,
but the article following reminds me of something Monsanto might have their
hands in and it does mention Monsanto. Got this from a website that I
happened to stumble upon. If any are not aware of this site, most people
that have posted on this thread will be in for a good treat. Not to mention
appreciate this reporter's research.
nomorefakenews.com
The Xinhau News Agency in China reports on trouble with genetically modified
cotton. Called Bt cotton. Which now makes up 35 percent of cotton grown in
China.
Bt does control the bollworm cotton pest, but it is also harming "natural
parasitic enemies of the bollworm." In other words, it's killing more than
it's supposed to kill. And by wiping out enemies of the bollworm, it's
setting the stage for a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"See, we can't stop growing Bt now, because there are many more bollworms.
Since enemies of the bollworm are being wiped out too, the bollworm
population is exploding."
Chinese agricultural researchers have also discovered that Bt is encouraging
the expansion of other insect pests.
To top it off, these researchers predict that Bt will cease to work against
the bollworm in eight to ten years.
"Sorry, I guess we made a mistake. The Bt ultimately allowed the bollworm
population to explode. And pretty soon the Bt won't work to kill the
bollworm. Don't call us. Our phone is disconnected."
And then there is this admission from the Chinese researchers. The genes
which are inserted into cotton to produce Bt drift into other plants in a
random fashion and create mutants. In fact, all genes inserted into food
crops for any purpose drift into other plants.
Oops. Seems a little late to be waking up to this central fact. Turns out
that China is one giant bio-lab being run by morons and lunatics.
Which is exactly the case in scores of other countries, including the US and
Canada.
In Australia, so-called integrated pest management is being practiced these
days on a wider scale. This involves bringing in pest B to kill crop-pest A
in growing fields. It's a much more benign solution.
Therefore, look for big companies like Monsanto and Aventis and Novartis to
slam Australia.
Twenty years from now, we could see ten companies which have patented, and
therefore gained ownership of, every food crop grown on planet Earth. In the
process, these crops will have failed massively--leading to unheard of
population wipe-outs.
But the companies will still own the patents on the crops. A quite different
version of Diet for a Small Planet.
[This message has been edited by historepeats (edited June 13, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 14, 2002 04:40 PM
Well to this point the Elites do want massive deaths and famine. As well
as the, redesigning nature for patents.
Its really sad that we as human beings who live on Earth can get in trouble
for digging a hole in their yards, while these fat evil bastards redesign
nature itself. A bit of a double standard (All for some and none for All)
But this is their mindsets, the elites really think of themselves as gods on
Earth.
But the Almighty will be coming back soon to correct this so silly idea of
these self appointed man and woman who stand on the necks of mankind. It
also cracks me up that they say "Peace", "Safety", "No Slavery" while the
whole time most of the HORRORS on Earth come from their like. You see when
they say the meek will inherit the Earth they mean the people who don't
fight will live........ sounds a little different that way don't it.
Peace and God Bless.........
PS If the site in question is really related to the Rockefeller family,
world government has just been announced, but if its just some nut you
should still take a peek at it, this is what is planned for the Earth and
this is what the Elites have talked about and still talk about today.
The flags and great seal bother me very much they are completely occult and
based on a Luciferic idea which is also in line with the Elites. So what you
going to do?
"All children born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population
to this (desired)
http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
(oh check the pop limits on the stone :eek
level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the
deaths of grown persons ... we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and
vainly endeavoring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this
mortality; and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of
famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which
we compel nature to use. Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we
should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets
narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the
plague. In the country, we should build our villages near stagnant pools,
and particularly encourage settlements in all marshy and unwholesome
situations. But above all, we should reprobate specific remedies for
ravaging diseases; and those benevolent, but much mistaken men, who have
thought they were doing a service to mankind by projecting schemes for the
total extirpation of particular disorders. (13)
13. Allan Chase, The Legacy of Malthus:The Social Costs of the New
Scientific Racism, University of Illinois Press, Chicago, 1980, p.6.
"The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of
the most important and successful in history." The New York Times: August
10, 1973
A Rockefeller said it. [1]
Dr. Dennis Cuddy, Secret Records Revealed, Hearthstone Publishing, Ltd.,
1999, pp. 117-118.
"One of those bomber pilots, wounded unto death, the stump of an arm
dangling by his side, gasped at me through the bubbles of blood he spat out
'General, which side are Washington and the United Nations on?' It seared my
very soul." General Douglas MacArthur [2]
2. Gen. Douglas MacArthur, Reminiscences, McGraw Hill, 1964, p.369
Millions died in china in The social experiment in China and today the
USA tells us that the UN is our friend.
quote:
Originally posted by historepeats:
This doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with Rockefeller or Monsanto,
but the article following reminds me of something Monsanto might have their
hands in and it does mention Monsanto. Got this from a website that I
happened to stumble upon. If any are not aware of this site, most people
that have posted on this thread will be in for a good treat. Not to mention
appreciate this reporter's research.
nomorefakenews.com
The Xinhau News Agency in China reports on trouble with genetically modified
cotton. Called Bt cotton. Which now makes up 35 percent of cotton grown in
China.
Bt does control the bollworm cotton pest, but it is also harming "natural
parasitic enemies of the bollworm." In other words, it's killing more than
it's supposed to kill. And by wiping out enemies of the bollworm, it's
setting the stage for a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"See, we can't stop growing Bt now, because there are many more bollworms.
Since enemies of the bollworm are being wiped out too, the bollworm
population is exploding."
Chinese agricultural researchers have also discovered that Bt is encouraging
the expansion of other insect pests.
To top it off, these researchers predict that Bt will cease to work against
the bollworm in eight to ten years.
"Sorry, I guess we made a mistake. The Bt ultimately allowed the bollworm
population to explode. And pretty soon the Bt won't work to kill the
bollworm. Don't call us. Our phone is disconnected."
And then there is this admission from the Chinese researchers. The genes
which are inserted into cotton to produce Bt drift into other plants in a
random fashion and create mutants. In fact, all genes inserted into food
crops for any purpose drift into other plants.
Oops. Seems a little late to be waking up to this central fact. Turns out
that China is one giant bio-lab being run by morons and lunatics.
Which is exactly the case in scores of other countries, including the US and
Canada.
In Australia, so-called integrated pest management is being practiced these
days on a wider scale. This involves bringing in pest B to kill crop-pest A
in growing fields. It's a much more benign solution.
Therefore, look for big companies like Monsanto and Aventis and Novartis to
slam Australia.
Twenty years from now, we could see ten companies which have patented, and
therefore gained ownership of, every food crop grown on planet Earth. In the
process, these crops will have failed massively--leading to unheard of
population wipe-outs.
But the companies will still own the patents on the crops. A quite different
version of Diet for a Small Planet.
[This message has been edited by historepeats (edited June 13, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 14, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 14, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 17, 2002 01:34 PM
Dear "Robodoon",
We have noticed your comments on the website forum at Newsmax.com:
http://www.newsmax.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/003369.html
http://www.newsmax.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000217.html
While your energy is wasted upon negative and paranoid thinking and your
misuse of biblical scripture to try and bastardise GN policy causes
controversy it also arouses much curiosity among many people.
The laws of physics prescribe that for every action there is a reaction.
Thanks to your comments more people are putting their interests and positive
attitude into GN and leaving your negative world behind. In retrospect your
negativity has helped support the positivity of Global Nation. GN and its
members thank you for assisting our campaign.
Kind Regards
Amadeus Rockefeller
Presiding Officer for Global Nation
P.S. I am sure Echelon has copies of all your postings: Just incase you try
to erase and hide your shame. Have a nice day.
IP:
Logged
curiousgirl
Senior Member
posted
June 17, 2002 04:29 PM
Uhhh, Robodoon........your above post smacks of idiocy. Do you REALLY
think the Global Nation website would post on this one? Someone's trying to
rile up some feathers.

IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 17, 2002 05:01 PM
Are you talking about the e-mail that was sent to me? I just posted it,
don't know if it is really from them or not, but I thought it would be a
good way to bump it one more time

Hey I would really like this to be nothing ,,getting e-mail from a "rockerfeller"
if that who it is ... really sucks

quote:
Originally posted by curiousgirl:
Uhhh, Robodoon........your above post smacks of idiocy. Do you REALLY
think the Global Nation website would post on this one? Someone's trying to
rile up some feathers.

IP:
Logged
curiousgirl
Senior Member
posted
June 17, 2002 08:56 PM
That was an e-mail? I hope you don't get much of that crap. I did notice
that the PS seemed a bit on the threatening side, or is it just me.

IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 18, 2002 03:38 PM
Yes it sure is a little threatening,
"The laws of physics prescribe that for every action there is a reaction"
bothers me a bit to, I got this on the first or second day this was
posted.... very fast.
quote:
Originally posted by curiousgirl:
That was an e-mail? I hope you don't get much of that crap. I did notice
that the PS seemed a bit on the threatening side, or is it just me.

IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
June 20, 2002 01:55 PM
So like who's in favor of this?
IP:
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 15, 2002 03:40 AM
I suggest you folks actually go to the Global Nation website and read the
proposed global constitution. It's not as bad as some doomsayers would have
everyone believe. And to answer the question there are far many more people
out here willing to activly support such an organization than you may think.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 16, 2002 11:40 AM
http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
Oh boy, Global Slavery for all, after all the bad people are removed and
after all the Christians and Jews are removed, and after America is
Destroy..... oh boy Rich people visions of tomorrow....golly its got to be
wonderful, cuz we all know how loving and correct the mega rich are don't
we.....
The rich say, just give us control of everything under the sun and it will
be a happy day....for them
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I suggest you folks actually go to the Global Nation website and read the
proposed global constitution. It's not as bad as some doomsayers would have
everyone believe. And to answer the question there are far many more people
out here willing to activly support such an organization than you may think.
IP:
Logged
Pragmatist
Senior Member
posted
July 16, 2002 05:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
Oh boy, Global Slavery for all, after all the bad people are removed and
after all the Christians and Jews are removed, and after America is
Destroy..... oh boy Rich people visions of tomorrow....golly its got to be
wonderful, cuz we all know how loving and correct the mega rich are don't
we.....
The rich say, just give us control of everything under the sun and it will
be a happy day....for them
its funny, but your starting to sound like a socialist. shall we
confiscate the money from the rich and redistribute it???
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 16, 2002 05:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
Oh boy, Global Slavery for all, after all the bad people are removed and
after all the Christians and Jews are removed, and after America is
Destroy..... oh boy Rich people visions of tomorrow....golly its got to be
wonderful, cuz we all know how loving and correct the mega rich are don't
we.....
The rich say, just give us control of everything under the sun and it will
be a happy day....for them
You obviously have not done your research on Global Nation. If you
actually read whats on the sight there is obviously no intention to get rid
of the Christians and Jews. Global Nation is so for the Hebrew religions
that it is almost funny. As for the rich gaining power, Global Nation would
still be a democracy. So the only way the rich or corrupt could get in power
would be if the people elected them.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 16, 2002 06:27 PM
"Global Nation would still be a democracy. So the only way the rich or
corrupt could get in power would be if the people elected them."
Democracy alone is evil, that’s why America is a Republic ,,,so I take it
you think Mob rule is good and democracies don't get bought out? Did you
know the US government changed the definition of democracy from being the
most evil thing to be ..to the best thing to be……our own government changing
the meanings of words.
PS.........the game plan is a lot bigger then you know. And if you look
at their flag and great seal...they are Satanic as well....golly........PS
about the Jews and the Christians.....there is no way in heaven they can
play this game... ie The Biodiversity Assessment
http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
Their goals in stone
http://www.oasistv.com/recent.asp?story=http://www.oasistv.com/news/1-23-02-story-2.asp
Your new Religion
They have been planning this for over 100 years!!! And the big trick, is
that they make you want it, after they cause horrors on the earth they offer
you the answer...their answer.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
You obviously have not done your research on Global Nation. If you
actually read whats on the sight there is obviously no intention to get rid
of the Christians and Jews. Global Nation is so for the Hebrew religions
that it is almost funny. As for the rich gaining power, Global Nation would
still be a democracy. So the only way the rich or corrupt could get in power
would be if the people elected them.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 16, 2002 06:32 PM
So your saying you didn't understand that the Communists are/were funded
by the globalist capitalists, via their funkies and foundations...there
would be no communism on the planet without the likes of the Rockefeller and
Rothschild interests funding it.
Communism was made, it just didn't happen.
and the people who built communism to battle capitalism now offer you "Happy
Land" and many are buying it.
Global Slavery and death for most....is their "Happy Land" they offer you
after they have financed the horrors of the world.
Look at their great seal, its satanic!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Pragmatist:
its funny, but your starting to sound like a socialist. shall we
confiscate the money from the rich and redistribute it???
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 16, 2002 08:18 PM
1st of all democracy is not evil. It is a system of government that has
pros and cons. The same is true of all systems of government. None are
inherently evil. Only the people that abuse the respective systems to which
they are apart. We are both correct as to the status of the USA since it is
in fact a domocratic republic. You can not blame all rich people for the
problems of the poor since not all rich people are out to hurt mankind. Such
a broad generilization is never accurate and always creates problems like
the Jim Crow laws that were created to keep black people as second class
citizens. Each person has to be judged on their own merits, not broad
judgements of a whole class of society. As to the alegations of satanic
symbolism, where is your evidence? The use of Jehovah's name in the original
Hebrew? Oh yes that is quite evil. As for the Ark of Hope being my new
religion, I don't think so. I don't have a problem with those who want to be
a part of the various nature religions, but that is not who I am.
http://www.uri.org
Check that out. If the book of revelations is real that is another
candidate for the one world religion.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 17, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 17, 2002 11:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
So your saying you didn't understand that the Communists are/were funded
by the globalist capitalists, via their funkies and foundations...there
would be no communism on the planet without the likes of the Rockefeller and
Rothschild interests funding it.
Communism was made, it just didn't happen.
and the people who built communism to battle capitalism now offer you "Happy
Land" and many are buying it.
Global Slavery and death for most....is their "Happy Land" they offer you
after they have financed the horrors of the world.
Look at their great seal, its satanic!!!
You are not very bright. I had a look at this website myself and saw the
name of YHWH or Jehovah on the great seal. If Global Nation were Satanic -
then Satan is a dumbass and likes scaring himself to death. because that
anicent name makes demons run for cover. I remember once hearing a lecture
about the devine name being used by a future government. If a government
beholds the sacred name of God then it will become Gods invincible
government on earth - much like the Hebrews that carryed the ARK of the
Covenant into battle. No army could defeat it. These global Nation people
are smart. They behold the most powerful name in the universe that defends
not only Christianity but the Islamic religion and many other religions. By
the looks of things Global Nation could be the coming Kingdom prophesized in
Daniel 2:44 "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a
kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not
be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these
kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite" !

[This message has been edited by Nevaeh_the_Seraph (edited July 17,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 17, 2002 01:25 PM
Well first of all putting the name of God on man is Satanic, I take that
as a claim to godhood, you know like the fallen Angels.And them putting a
circle around it, what a terrible joke-trick (you are gods..here is your
cage) man oh man
Your right many "Rich" are good, but not the Rockefellers clan
"The United Nations, he told an audience at Harvard University, 'has not
been able--nor can it be able--to shape a new world order which events so
compellingly demand.' ... The new world order that will answer economic,
military, and political problems, he said, 'urgently requires, I believe,
that the United States take the leadership among all free peoples to make
the underlying concepts and aspirations of national sovereignty truly
meaningful through the federal approach.'" Gov. Nelson Rockefeller of New
York, in an article entitled "Rockefeller Bids Free Lands Unite: Calls at
Harvard for Drive to Build New World Order" -- The New York Times (February
1962)
"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world
government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent,
all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced
there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning,
and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed
in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets
"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like
a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like
the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created
screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil
interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to
as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international
bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish
purposes. They practically control both political parties." New York City
Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922
"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for
multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by
seizing control of the political government of the United States. The
Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize
control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary,
intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is
to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments
of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system ,they
will rule the future."
U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: With No Apologies.
"The most powerful clique in these (CFR) groups have one objective in
common: they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the
national independence of the U.S. They want to end national boundaries and
racial and ethnic loyalties supposedly to increase business and ensure world
peace. What they strive for would inevitably lead to dictatorship and loss
of freedoms by the people. The CFR was founded for "the purpose of promoting
disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence
into an all-powerful one-world government."
Harpers, July l958
"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more
controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite,
unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert
almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date
complete files containing even the most personal information about the
citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the
authorities."
--Zbigniew Brzezinski ,,,Rockefellers boy
http://www.rbf.org/securityprog.html
http://www.newsmax.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000059.html
Rocks for GG
- Democracy
A goverment of the masses.
Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of 'direct'
expression.
Results in mobocracy.
Attitude toward property is communistic - negating property rights.
Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate,...
without restraint or regard to consequences.
Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
Army Training Manual Concerning Citizenship 1928
Promised Religions
The site you list seems to be in agreement with
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge
to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will
take a Luciferian Initiation." David Spangler, Director of Planetary
Initiative, United Nations
Which is agreement with
www.radioliberty.com./stones.htm
Which is agreement with
http://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/agenda21.htm
Agenda 21
Which is agreement with
http://www.scruz.net/~tgilman/ratify.html
earth constitution
Which is agreement with
http://www.lucistrust.org/ their
Global Religion (once called Lucifer publishing)
Who is agreement with
"The sacrifice of personal existence is necessary to secure the preservation
of the species."
Adolph Hitler Mein Kampf 1923
Who was in Agreement with these men
http://infowars.com/bg1.html
our leaders in occult rites in Santa Rosa
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right
major crisis
and the nations will accept the New World Order."
David Rockefeller
http://www.newsmax.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000056.html
"There is a chance for the President of the United States to use the
disaster . . . to carry out what his father - a phrase his father used I
think only once, and it hasn't been used since - and that is a new world
order."
Senator Gary Hart, Sept. 14, 2001 [4]
PS the UN is pushing a satanic based global religion (ie Humanism) for
the whole Earth, changing labels to hide behind is an old trick.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
1st of all democracy is not evil. It is a system of government that has
pros and cons. The same is true of all systems of government. None are
inherently evil. Only the people that abuse the respective systems to which
they are apart. We are both correct as to the status of the USA since it is
in fact a domocratic republic. You can not blame all rich people for the
problems of the poor since not all rich people are out to hurt mankind. Such
a broad generilization is never accurate and always creates problems like
the Jim Crow laws that were created to keep black people as second class
citizens. Each person has to be judged on their own merits, not broad
judgements of a whole class of society. As to the alegations of satanic
symbolism, where is your evidence? The use of Jehovah's name in the original
Hebrew? Oh yes that is quite evil. As for the Ark of Hope being my new
religion, I don't think so. I don't have a problem with those who want to be
a part of the various nature religions, but that is not who I am.
http://www.uri.org
Check that out. If the book of revelations is real that is another
candidate for the one world religion.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 17, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 17, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 17, 2002 01:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
[B] By the looks of things Global Nation could be the coming Kingdom
prophesized in Daniel 2:44 "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven
will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom
itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an
end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite" !
LOL LOL LOL

Yeah Right tell me another you
ser[=a]phim, pl.] One of an order of celestial beings, each having three
pairs of wings. In ecclesiastical art and in poetry, a seraph is represented
as one of a class of angels. --Isa. vi. 2.
Golly you're sounding for like a Rockefeller LOL....are you enlightened
as well

IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 17, 2002 04:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
LOL LOL LOL

Yeah Right tell me another you
ser[=a]phim, pl.] One of an order of celestial beings, each having three
pairs of wings. In ecclesiastical art and in poetry, a seraph is represented
as one of a class of angels. --Isa. vi. 2.
Golly you're sounding for like a Rockefeller LOL....are you enlightened
as well

I think you live in a very sad schizo world and are blind to everything
accept the things you choose to see. it is interesting how there are plenty
of narrowminded humans that love to tear down other people without first
hand proof of anything. if any of this were in a courtcase the judge and
jury would sit and laugh their ass off at you and throw your dumbass outa
court for the contempt of sanity.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 17, 2002 04:58 PM
Careful Nevaeh, you don't want to sink down to his level. He's paranoid
and doesn't know what it means to view something objectivly.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 17, 2002 07:02 PM
"You are not very bright" as you would say.
It sounds to me like your an elitist?
"it is interesting how there are plenty of narrowminded humans that love
to tear down other people without first hand proof of anything. "
Oh, I see

You know you had better put on some thinker skin if your going to post,
you know people are sometime mean when they are upset, and it seems though
your feelings have been hurt.
Relax take a deep breath, its OK.... since your new here you'd better buck
up a little, it can get rough and if you're having trouble dealing with me,
get ready, cuz I'm a softy...
"I think you live in a very sad schizo world "
Well you got that right!!. I live in Santa Cruz California, a UN test ground
for Agenda 21 in America...well we have been a socialist test ground for
years...
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
I think you live in a very sad schizo world and are blind to everything
accept the things you choose to see. it is interesting how there are plenty
of narrowminded humans that love to tear down other people without first
hand proof of anything. if any of this were in a courtcase the judge and
jury would sit and laugh their ass off at you and throw your dumbass outa
court for the contempt of sanity.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 17, 2002 07:06 PM
Well Magus perhaps you could pray for me, that I might understand

quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Careful Nevaeh, you don't want to sink down to his level. He's paranoid
and doesn't know what it means to view something objectivly.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 17, 2002 09:31 PM
Robodoon, my point was that you always seem to assume the worst about
everyone. Not everyone is out to screw over everyone else or to be truly
evil. You immedietly assume that anybody that is trying to accomplish
something you don't agree with must be some evil individual. Simply not a
very realistic point of view. Is that good enough for ya bud?

IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 18, 2002 02:36 PM
But we aren't talking about everyone, we are talking about the
Rockefellers who are evil, who have potted against the USA, who run
foundations that destroy and change mindsets of people.
Have you know me so long that you can say " I assume the worst about
everyone"
That's not true at all, I know most of the people on the Earth are good
people who just want to be left alone.
Yet whenever the people start to get things going their way, in steps folks
like the Rockefellers to get their little fingers into our pies, to tax us
one more time, to take a little more control, to make more promises of a
better tomorrow. But if one looks at the things WE are to be saved from,
they have been created for the express purpose of offering a solution.
ie
Money worries = The Private Federal Reserve Bank and Plank 5 in the
Communist Manifesto
and the 29 crash would not have happened without the Federal Reserve (it
created the very thing the people where told it would stop)
WWI = League of Nations (Federation of Man) Failed ( our grandparents knew
them)
WWII = Untited Nations (Named by FDR who was a CFR)(Federation of Man) (our
grandparents forgot them)
Environmental pollution caused by people like the Rockefellers and their
offshoots , who now write the ECO-Codes for themselves...They pollute, hold
finite fuels in the market that pollute and then take our land away as the
"solution" to Saving the Environment
Agenda 21 is a complete social engineering program for the world, based on
solving problems that where created in the first place by the people
presenting Agenda 21 to the people. and on and on and on.
www.clubofrome.org
I’m all for a better tomorrow and I believe most people are good.
A better tomorrow is promised by people who have been the trouble makers of
the USA for the last 150 years, and now here in America… all that was once
held dear are now look at a bases of "terrorism", not –PC, intolerant,
mean-spirited, etc…..And were did these wonderful ideas come from, well some
of the very Foundations and NGO’s that have been forwarded by the
Rockefeller Clan.
Everyone wants a better tomorrow, but a better tomorrow based on lies and
deception doesn’t contain truth and therefore will fail. But really this
isn’t about a better tomorrow for all, it’s a better tomorrow for the ruling
class who are self appointed and serfdom for the rest of us….oh boy……
Do you think is correct to manipulated, lie, cheat, steal and murder to
build a foundation in which a new way (structure, even a paradox) could be
offered the wore out masses as an answer to their problems…..
We didn’t have a hole in the chicken coop until the wolf put it there,
now the wolf has offered to fix that troublesome hole, and the tired
chickens thank him for his kindness.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Robodoon, my point was that you always seem to assume the worst about
everyone. Not everyone is out to screw over everyone else or to be truly
evil. You immedietly assume that anybody that is trying to accomplish
something you don't agree with must be some evil individual. Simply not a
very realistic point of view. Is that good enough for ya bud?

IP:
Logged
corndawg
Senior Member
posted
July 18, 2002 03:06 PM
This is all a bunch of alarmist malarky. Some guy named Rockefeller in
Australia scrapes up $500 for a website, and we all think it's the American
Rockefellers.
Did anyone even read the link?
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 18, 2002 05:02 PM
Well I'd really hope your right,but look what he's into.
Do you really think the real Rockefeller family would scoot over for someone
holding the same name and allow them in to their monopolies? Hummm...maybe
so.
did you remove the .au from the link and see where you end up?
Hey if you have got something to show this is a hoax love to see it. I'd
love to write a nasty letter and tell them where to but their Global Nation,
but I'm not going to take on the Rockefeller in a pissing contest, I still
have a lot of work to do and would like to be around to do it

quote:
Originally posted by corndawg:
This is all a bunch of alarmist malarky. Some guy named Rockefeller in
Australia scrapes up $500 for a website, and we all think it's the American
Rockefellers.
Did anyone even read the link?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 18, 2002 11:31 PM
Trust me. Global Nation is NOT a hoax.
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 04:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Trust me. Global Nation is NOT a hoax.
I agree this isnt a hoax. If it was it would have been shut down
immediately by just about every government on the planet not to mention the
Rockefeller's themselves. Just reading through the Constitution is evidence
that this innocent looking website is deadly serious. Have a look at the
Constitution at the following article:
CHAPTER IV SECT 77
Vertical Integration Board
77. There shall be a Vertical Integration Board, with such powers of
adjudication and administration as the Governing Body deems necessary for
the execution and maintenance of States, within the Federation, of the
provisions of this Constitution relating to trade, commerce and foreign
policies, and of all laws made there under:
The Vertical Integration Board shall immediately take control and
dissolve the following organizations, of which this list is not exhausted
according to the directives that the Governing Body may execute; shall be:
The Tri-Lateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, The United
Nations, The Bilderberg Group, Club of Rome, Royal Institute of
International Affairs.
DO YOU SEE the organisations mentioned above that GN is going to
dissolve? The most powerful organisations on earth! These organisations
would have jumped on GN immeditely if they were not privy too it. This is
serious S***. Think people think.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 10:14 AM
You are quite right. This is very serious indeed.
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 11:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
You are quite right. This is very serious indeed.
I see the United Nations has made an official recognition of Global
Nation on the Q&A section of the website. Things are getting very
interesting!!!!

If you dont believe me check it out:
www.rockefeller.com.au/gn/
and click on the "questions and answer section."
[This message has been edited by Nevaeh_the_Seraph (edited July 19,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
stealthy
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 12:11 PM
 http://www.lucistrust.org/arcane/nasymb.shtml
Nut Jobs.
IP:
Logged
corndawg
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 01:13 PM
You boys need to loosen the aluminum hats you wear to keep the satellites
from reading your thoughts.
I am a firm believer in a coming world gov't, for religious reasons. I
also have enough common sense and web savvy to know this is total BS.
Anybody that thinks a sinister new world order plot has an open webisite has
too much time on his hands.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 19, 2002 02:44 PM
Yes this is the basis for the Global Religion, THE SHAMBALLA Force,
Luciferic!
for those that don't know,The Lucis Trust
http://www.lucistrust.org/
of today is the modern-day extension of the "Lucifer Publishing Company," an
organization founded by Alice Bailey during the early years of the twentieth
century. Alice Bailey was a disciple of Madame Blavatsky and the nominal
leader of the Theosophical Society between the early 1900s and the late
1920s. Because the name "Lucifer" had such a bad connotation in those days,
Alice Bailey changed the name of her organization from "The Lucifer
Publishing Company" to "The Lucis Trust." The nature and beliefs of her
organization, however, have always remained the same. The Lucis Trust of
today is one of the major front groups through which theosophy works to
influence life here in America. The supernatural powers that still energize
The Lucis Trust today certainly come from the same dark, spiritual forces
that energized Madame Blavatsky, Adolph Hitler, and Margaret Sanger in
generations past.
Publications from The Lucis Trust regularly refer to "The Plan" for humanity
that has been established by "The Hierarchy." Part of that plan is inscribed
on the great granite pillars of the American Stonehenge in Elberton, Georgia
... "The Georgia Guidestones." 13
www.radioliberty.com/stone
"In every age, major and lesser spiritual teachers have guided humanity. We
know them, among others, as Hercules, Hermes, Rama, Mithra, Vyasa,
Sankaracharya, Krishna, Buddha, the Christ and Mohammed. They are the
custodians of a Plan for the evolution of humanity and the other kingdoms of
nature. This Plan works out through the agency of the esoteric Hierarchy of
Masters of the Wisdom.’
From the site http://www.shareintl.org/
Pushing Global Socialism
"How then can the world move in the direction of sharing and redistribution,
prerequisites for world peace?"
World Bank and UN Approved
I don’t think they really want to "anchor" the things they say.
Sharing and Justice, Brotherhood and Freedom are not new concepts. From the
dawn of time mankind has linked his aspiration to these beckoning stars.
Now, My friends, shall we anchor them in the world.
quote:
Originally posted by stealthy:
 http://www.lucistrust.org/arcane/nasymb.shtml
Nut Jobs.
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 19, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 19, 2002 02:47 PM
Well help us out, don't just call us tin hatters.....
Please show us how we are mistaken...some data please

I don't want this to be real either

quote:
Originally posted by corndawg:
You boys need to loosen the aluminum hats you wear to keep the satellites
from reading your thoughts.
I am a firm believer in a coming world gov't, for religious reasons. I
also have enough common sense and web savvy to know this is total BS.
Anybody that thinks a sinister new world order plot has an open webisite has
too much time on his hands.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 19, 2002 08:07 PM
Hello, from what I can tell this is very real, if you have data proving
otherwise, like to see it very much
Thank you,
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
Well help us out, don't just call us tin hatters.....
Please show us how we are mistaken...some data please

I don't want this to be real either

IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 08:40 PM
Well I don't know about the other groups but GN is for real. GN is in the
process of setting up political parties in every nation where such political
institutions are aloud. Unlike some other groups out there GN isn't secretly
plotting a global government. They are out in the open about it and setting
up political parties so the people can decide if they agree with there view
points through elections. As the way it should be.
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 10:19 PM
Well if we are going to have global government anyway - then I for one
would at least want one that I could vote in. So go GN baby go! And after
you are in power swing around and shiton Robodoon and lock the looney up.

quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Well I don't know about the other groups but GN is for real. GN is in the
process of setting up political parties in every nation where such political
institutions are aloud. Unlike some other groups out there GN isn't secretly
plotting a global government. They are out in the open about it and setting
up political parties so the people can decide if they agree with there view
points through elections. As the way it should be.
[This message has been edited by Nevaeh_the_Seraph (edited July 19,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 19, 2002 10:29 PM
"They are out in the open about it and setting up political parties so
the people can decide if they agree with there view points through
elections. As the way it should be."
So at least you’re up front, Quigley was trying to tell you guys this is
the best way.
But I'm going to go down scrapping, but I guess you know that.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Well I don't know about the other groups but GN is for real. GN is in the
process of setting up political parties in every nation where such political
institutions are aloud. Unlike some other groups out there GN isn't secretly
plotting a global government. They are out in the open about it and setting
up political parties so the people can decide if they agree with there view
points through elections. As the way it should be.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 19, 2002 10:35 PM
Well you guys plan to do that anyway ..who are you kidding, you guys are
going to kill people like me....cut the crap...they aren't building
Concentration Camps, Train cars with leather restraints and Train yards 3
levels deep in hurricane fence with brand new furnaces to have a picnic.
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Well if we are going to have global government anyway - then I for one
would at least want one that I could vote in. So go GN baby go! And after
you are in power swing around and shiton Robodoon and lock the looney up.

[This message has been edited by Nevaeh_the_Seraph (edited July 19,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 19, 2002 10:54 PM
Nahh I'd rather see you locked up within a crazyman cell with a small
window so you can see outside and go schizo because you decided to HATE and
not be apart of a benevolent free world society. Boy are you a looser!
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
Well you guys plan to do that anyway ..who are you kidding, you guys are
going to kill people like me....cut the crap...they aren't building
Concentration Camps, Train cars with leather restraints and Train yards 3
levels deep in hurricane fence with brand new furnaces to have a picnic.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 20, 2002 01:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
[BSo at least you’re up front, Quigley was trying to tell you guys this is
the best way.
But I'm going to go down scrapping, but I guess you know that.
[/B]
Thats one of the wonderful things about a DEMOCRACY Robodoon. You can
vote against GN candadites.
IP:
Logged
Strings
Senior Member
posted
July 20, 2002 10:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Nahh I'd rather see you locked up within a crazyman cell with a small
window so you can see outside and go schizo because you decided to HATE and
not be apart of a benevolent free world society. Boy are you a looser!
Some post seem to be written as if a third party were watching the
message that gets through is I am loyal i am not like them i'll be loyal to
you master please beleive me i'm loyal i'm loyal.
[This message has been edited by Strings (edited July 20, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 20, 2002 11:33 PM
Well, I tell you what. I am going to be a real bitch and really up the
stakes on this whole forum. As soon as this message is posted the Echelon
sub servers will start snapshots of all posts as the following key words
will trigger the Echelon dictionaries:
Key set: echelon, terrorist, assassinate, president, anti-government,
riot, illuminati, al-Qaeda, bin Laden, espionage, spy, destroy, anarchy,
national security, Whitehouse, fbi, cia, nsa, fema, taliban, demonstration,
anti-american, nuclear, weapons; end key
quote:
Originally posted by Strings:
Some post seem to be written as if a third party were watching the
message that gets through is I am loyal i am not like them i'll be loyal to
you master please beleive me i'm loyal i'm loyal.
[This message has been edited by Strings (edited July 20, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
Strings
Senior Member
posted
July 21, 2002 09:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Well, I tell you what. I am going to be a real bitch and really up the
stakes on this whole forum. As soon as this message is posted the Echelon
sub servers will start snapshots of all posts as the following key words
will trigger the Echelon dictionaries:
Key set: echelon, terrorist, assassinate, president, anti-government,
riot, illuminati, al-Qaeda, bin Laden, espionage, spy, destroy, anarchy,
national security, Whitehouse, fbi, cia, nsa, fema, taliban, demonstration,
anti-american, nuclear, weapons; end key

IP:
Logged
stealthy
Senior Member
posted
July 21, 2002 12:37 PM
This pud accuses Robo of hate yet he's the first to call for actions
being taken against someone who differs from his opinion and wants the
government to be the one to do it.
Good luck selling your farce if this sophmoric
behavior is what you got to rely on.
BTW- What "parties" that are "up front" about what they want are running
where?
Facts please, spare me the blather.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 21, 2002 03:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stealthy:
BTW- What "parties" that are "up front" about what they want are running
where?
Facts please, spare me the blather.
Well GN is quite honest about their goals. All you have to do is go to
the website and read the proposed constitution to know what they want.
Doesn't get much more honest than that. I think the GN political party has
been registered in Australia but I don't have anything solid on that yet.
They are planning on getting the political party registered and running in
North America next summer.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 01:52 PM
"decided to HATE"

LOL , you guys always crack me up.
You’re little black leather boots snapping to attention.
So, you support something based on opposing God, show up with Demonic
symbols and sayings and when some one protests, you act like "they aren’t
being tolerant " they are "full of hate"
You know I be the Jews of Germany hated the Soldiers that put them in the
death camps.
Are they full of "hate" too? Is that what the Nazi soldiers told the Jews
when they rounded them up?’ "You Jews are full of hate get on the Train!1".
AH yes I see the hate you are speaking off
Are you sure you’re not a short haired ,round angry woman who wants to be
pretty but can’t and will take her wrath out on the "oppressor " men
Its not like people like me haven’t spent years watching the Rockefellers ,
Rothschilds and their secret little groups,,, whisper …whisper ;screw up the
world and blame it on others.
Of course not. And its not that people like the Rockefellers and Rothschilds
have spent years building up, tricking and lying to build their road to and
their foundations, NGO’s for their Utopia World Government .
." But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards
a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite
and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination
practiced in past centuries." "
{From quote below}
First they thank the Press for "Hiding" them.
Then they say they have conditioned the population to the point, "the world
is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government "
Seems some of these Politically Correct nut balls are getting their "OK"
from Uncle Bucks ..A?
Angel Man
You are about as subtle as Hitler showing up with a gift at a Jewish
Birthday party.
"Uncle Adolph has brought you a present full of love, Uncle Adolph hopes
you will accept it and not be "intolerant" ; uncle Adolph would take that as
a act of "hate" and will have to kill you."
Are you sure you’re not a short haired ,round angry woman who wants to be
pretty but can’t and will take her wrath out on the "oppressor " men?
I guess not, you’re an PC elitist ,held together by big money that you
haven’t earned, if you had to stand on you own you would fail for lack of
common sense. Please keep talking to us you prove our points with each
keystroke….spoiled brats with bucks.
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our
meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.
It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we
had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the
world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world
government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world
bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in
past centuries."
David Rockefeller Baden-Baden, Germany 1991
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Nahh I'd rather see you locked up within a crazyman cell with a small
window so you can see outside and go schizo because you decided to HATE and
not be apart of a benevolent free world society. Boy are you a looser!
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 01:57 PM
Oh boy, I feel better,
you
mean like in America where we get to vote for the two candidates that have
been "prepared for the people", two sides of the same coin? Out of the Aspen
Institute that Rockefeller give so much dough to? Oh you mean so we can
"Throw the Rascals out" A?

People they are laughing at you, don't you get it?

quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Thats one of the wonderful things about a DEMOCRACY Robodoon. You can
vote against GN candadites.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 22, 2002 02:12 PM
Robodoon I am not saying none of the groups are evil like you think
(there is more than enough proof to show some are, I'm saying not all of the
groups are like that. Some really do want to help. You can't call some
people evil for wanting to make it a better world just because some other
people have been shown to have sinister agendas.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 02:20 PM
Stop trying to scare people, what do you think people in here don't
understand we are being watch and recorded all the time?......OH...everyone
be silent....shhhhh...they are listening....shhhhhh

BOOB! We know , we have nothing to hide, I for one am telling the truth.
Although it seems the truth is combated with words like "Intolerance" and.
"full of hate"...hay you'll have to do better than that, I live in a UN test
ground for America, I'm use to the globalist/communist propaganda bit....oooooh.......you’re
full of hate...(the show stopper). Well if disliking commie lov'n bastards
is a bad thing put me on your list, that use to be
A good thing, but I guess it just gets a "Intolerant" label today
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Well, I tell you what. I am going to be a real bitch and really up the
stakes on this whole forum. As soon as this message is posted the Echelon
sub servers will start snapshots of all posts as the following key words
will trigger the Echelon dictionaries:
Key set: echelon, terrorist, assassinate, president, anti-government,
riot, illuminati, al-Qaeda, bin Laden, espionage, spy, destroy, anarchy,
national security, Whitehouse, fbi, cia, nsa, fema, taliban, demonstration,
anti-american, nuclear, weapons; end key
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 02:25 PM
Well it shows what they are all about, disagreement is met with PC
Labeling of "Hate filled" and threats of punishment for non-compliance.
Just like those soldiers training to take our Guns in Oakland California,
when Asked "do you always use force"?
The reply came back from the "Peacekeeper",
"Only the people who don't what help"
police State 2000 video at
www.infowars.com
quote:
Originally posted by stealthy:
This pud accuses Robo of hate yet he's the first to call for actions
being taken against someone who differs from his opinion and wants the
government to be the one to do it.
Good luck selling your farce if this sophmoric
behavior is what you got to rely on.
BTW- What "parties" that are "up front" about what they want are running
where?
Facts please, spare me the blather.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 02:34 PM
Oh boy Magus I bet you can tell I can't wait.
Peace on Earth, when the bully gets his way.
Peace by War.....isn't that one of those little tidbits the Carnegie
Endowment for peace talks about in the groups minutes about destroying the
USA?... Should have just named it Carnegie Endowment for Global War, that
would have been more truthful, since you into the "out in the open" Thing.
http://www.newsmax.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000030.html
for those who don’t know about the plans for War toward peace check out this
link people have been trying to get you to look at for years.
Or you can get the full Norman Dodd interview on Audio Tape at
http://www.radioliberty.com
… very scary ,very real and involving these fellows here and their plans for
you.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Well GN is quite honest about their goals. All you have to do is go to
the website and read the proposed constitution to know what they want.
Doesn't get much more honest than that. I think the GN political party has
been registered in Australia but I don't have anything solid on that yet.
They are planning on getting the political party registered and running in
North America next summer.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 02:36 PM
Could you point out these "helpful" groups you are speaking about? Like
to see them

quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Robodoon I am not saying none of the groups are evil like you think
(there is more than enough proof to show some are, I'm saying not all of the
groups are like that. Some really do want to help. You can't call some
people evil for wanting to make it a better world just because some other
people have been shown to have sinister agendas.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 22, 2002 03:12 PM
Why Robodoon? You believe they are all evil and out to get you anyway.
Carnegie
on the other hand IS evil. Carnegie was Illuminati. Those guys you DO have
to look out for. People like them need to be stopped.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 05:42 PM
You really take me for an idiot don't you?.
You can't provide any of these "Good Groups" cause they are all connected.
Was the "Rockefeller Foundation" one of the Good ones Magus? or should I
say "helpful"

quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Why Robodoon? You believe they are all evil and out to get you anyway.
Carnegie
on the other hand IS evil. Carnegie was Illuminati. Those guys you DO have
to look out for. People like them need to be stopped.
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 22, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 07:21 PM
Sooooo. tell me...... is the Rockefeller Foundation a helpful group?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 22, 2002 07:28 PM
I don't think your an idiot. Paranoid? Probably. Pessimistic? Definetely.
What is the point of trying to prove to you that there are good people in
the world when you will just come up with some wacky theory about how they
are trying to bring Hell to earth or simply call me a liar? There is no
point in arguing with you because you have already made up your mind that
everyone is evil and out to screw the little guy. Unfortuanetly I have more
faith in mankind than you. Are there sick and twisted sadistic bastards out
there? Yes. Is everyone like that? Hell no. Not everyone has some sinister
agenda. Not everyone is out to take your house, your family, your happiness,
or your life. If you seriously believe everyone is out to get you then you
need therepy. If that is not what you believe then you need to be clearer in
your posts since that is how you come across in all your posts to me. Have a
good day.

IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 07:45 PM
Wiggle Wiggle a Magus?
Just answer the question.
I don't think everyone is evil, if fact I think I have posted many times I
think most of the people on Earth are good.!!!
But you know what I'm getting at and you can't answer, because you have
already have and you know it.!!
Is that such a hard question...is the Rockefeller Foundation a good or
helpful group....very easy to answer...you answered very quickly about
Carnegie, why not Rockefeller....Since a Rockefeller is heading up Global
Nation I thought I'd ask the "pro's"
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I don't think your an idiot. Paranoid? Probably. Pessimistic? Definetely.
What is the point of trying to prove to you that there are good people in
the world when you will just come up with some wacky theory about how they
are trying to bring Hell to earth or simply call me a liar? There is no
point in arguing with you because you have already made up your mind that
everyone is evil and out to screw the little guy. Unfortuanetly I have more
faith in mankind than you. Are there sick and twisted sadistic bastards out
there? Yes. Is everyone like that? Hell no. Not everyone has some sinister
agenda. Not everyone is out to take your house, your family, your happiness,
or your life. If you seriously believe everyone is out to get you then you
need therepy. If that is not what you believe then you need to be clearer in
your posts since that is how you come across in all your posts to me. Have a
good day.

IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 22, 2002 09:29 PM
Robodoon - you are such a stupid ass. What your basically saying is that
because you believe the Rockefeller Foundation is evil that Amadeus
Rockefeller and Global Nation must be evil too. That's like saying if
Robodoon had a cousin who was a serial killer - then Robodoon must be a
serial killer too. Now is that fair to speculate like that??? Asshole.
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
Wiggle Wiggle a Magus?
Just answer the question.
I don't think everyone is evil, if fact I think I have posted many times I
think most of the people on Earth are good.!!!
But you know what I'm getting at and you can't answer, because you have
already have and you know it.!!
Is that such a hard question...is the Rockefeller Foundation a good or
helpful group....very easy to answer...you answered very quickly about
Carnegie, why not Rockefeller....Since a Rockefeller is heading up Global
Nation I thought I'd ask the "pro's"
[This message has been edited by Nevaeh_the_Seraph (edited July 22,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 22, 2002 10:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Robodoon - you are such a stupid ass. What your basically saying is that
because you believe the Rockefeller Foundation is evil that Amadeus
Rockefeller and Global Nation must be evil too. That's like saying if
Robodoon had a cousin who was a serial killer - then Robodoon must be a
serial killer too. Now is that fair to speculate like that??? Asshole.
[This message has been edited by Nevaeh_the_Seraph (edited July 22,
2002).]
Whoa pal.
You will not call another moderator or any other member names, nor cuss
on this forum.
This is is not up for debate.
This is a civil forum. Your viewpoint will be heard. But not in violation
of the forum rules.
This goes for all of you.
You got a problem, take it to email.
This is fair warning.
Do it again, and you're gone.
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited July 22,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 12:49 AM
While Nevaeh's termonology may be ruff around the edges his core
statement is sound. That is exactly the point I was trying to make Robodoon.
I may have chosen to phrase it in such a colorful fashion but the core
message is accurate none the less
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 01:54 AM
HA THATS A JOKE. I have noted how you seem to be very scared of the
things I have to say. Locking down two of my topics already. Is America such
a free country. Hell NO. You and this forum are living proof of this. And as
for cusing. Don't gimme no rubbish about that. I have read over a dozen or
so posts where cursing is frequent. And I ain't your pal. Don't threaten me
either. You dont know who I am and what I can do - pal. OOoooo your all so
scared of the federal authorities if you ask me. Freedom of speech -
phooey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Key set: echelon, terrorist, assassinate, president, anti-government,
riot, illuminati, al-Qaeda, bin Laden, espionage, spy, destroy, anarchy,
national security, Whitehouse, fbi, cia, nsa, fema, taliban, demonstration,
anti-american, nuclear, weapons; end key
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Whoa pal.
You will not call another moderator or any other member names, nor cuss
on this forum.
This is is not up for debate.
This is a civil forum. Your viewpoint will be heard. But not in violation
of the forum rules.
This goes for all of you.
You got a problem, take it to email.
This is fair warning.
Do it again, and you're gone.
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited July 22,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 11:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
HA THATS A JOKE. I have noted how you seem to be very scared of the
things I have to say. Locking down two of my topics already. Is America such
a free country. Hell NO. You and this forum are living proof of this. And as
for cusing. Don't gimme no rubbish about that. I have read over a dozen or
so posts where cursing is frequent. And I ain't your pal. Don't threaten me
either. You dont know who I am and what I can do - pal. OOoooo your all so
scared of the federal authorities if you ask me. Freedom of speech -
phooey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really haven't been following your discussions, as I have no interest
in conspiracies. There is no freedom of speech in the NewsMax forum. It is a
privately run forum, funded by private dollars. This means that the Forum
has the right to control what is posted on it, just as you have the right to
place on your website what you will.
This said, if any of your threads have been locked down or moved, it was
for reasons of them being off topic, or a ruled violations occured. Had your
threads been closed or moved for idealogy or content contrary to what I
believe, this thread would have been closed too. I respect your priviledge
as a Newsmax forum guest and member to discuss what you desire.
For you to be under the mistaken understanding that you are being
censored is patently absured.
Your only transgression here is that you are calling a moderator names,
while he has not engaged in like behavior.
You owe him the same courtesy as he extends to you.
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph: Don't threaten me either. You
dont know who I am and what I can do -
Nice. The representative of the self elected king of the "globe" is
threatening me.
Let's take a look at the Preamble to Global Nation's Constitution.
And whereas each individual shall unite with others to promote a
kindred spirit of good-will in a world-wide family of humanity and peace; to
form a world where the strong do not dominate the weak; where the rich help
the poor; where the human spirit is allowed to love and care for others
without obstruction; where the beauty of our planet, its flora and its
fauna are nurtured to its most full potential; and where justice, truth
and human kindness shall never be allowed to be removed:
And whereas it is expedient to provide for the admission into the
Federation of other Nations who wish to share and join our great
benevolence and possessions and protection of the Supreme State Sovereign to
whom shall be the protector and defender of mankind and mother earth:
Jeeze. Your threats and rantings are in direct opposition to your
Constitution.
While your constitution is sugar coated and all fuzzy and warm on the
outside, your words contradict the spirit of your constitution.
How do you plan to implement your global utopia? Trough silencing the
opposition? Through coercion? Through bully tactics? Do your words speak for
the entire leadership and all the representatives of GLOBAL damnNATION? Is
that how you intend on meeting your one-world utopian goal? Through
intimidation of those who you don't see eye to eye with?
Your statement of; "You dont know who I am and what I can do."
illustrates your mentality. If you don't get what you want, you take it by
force, and all others will suffer your wrath.
You defniately have a public relations problem if you cannt even contain
your emotions enough to remain benevolent and at least stick with the
illusion that you are fronting for a kind leader.
You've blown your cover.
I don't care if you are a Rockerfeller, or are associates with the
Rockerfellers or who you are. You've exposed yourself as being an amature, a
fraud, and a wannabe. You've shown through your words "You dont know who I
am and what I can do" of how insideous your dictatorial ideas through Global
Nation are.
My question is this. Do you threaten all those who don't agree with you,
and is your agenda to silence them?
If so, your actions are in direct opposition of your Preamble to your
Constitution, which reeks of hypocrisy

[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited July 23,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 11:45 AM
WOW - what weed have you been smoking? Hahaha thats funnny!
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Nice. The representative of the self elected king of the "globe" is
threatening me.
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited July 23,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 11:58 AM
As far as I know Nevaeh is not a representetive of Global Nation. If he
were then due to his emotional outbursts, as good intentioned as they may
be, would cause him to immedietly be removed from that post. So do not
compare him to the reps for Global Nation.
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 12:09 PM
Yes, I do get emotional, but hey, it keeps things interesting. It keeps
people on their toes and gives boring forums some spice.
I am a she by the way. Or am I too 'in your face' to be considered a she?
Oh well thats me.
Hmm ... it sounds like you are a Global Nation member though. This is
interesting. You are very diplomatic in your wording. Are you a member of
Global Nation or associated with them?
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
As far as I know Nevaeh is not a representetive of Global Nation. If he
were then due to his emotional outbursts, as good intentioned as they may
be, would cause him to immedietly be removed from that post. So do not
compare him to the reps for Global Nation.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 12:26 PM
quote:
I agree this isnt a hoax. If it was it would have been shut down
immediately by just about every government on the planet not to mention the
Rockefeller's themselves. Just reading through the Constitution is evidence
that this innocent looking website is deadly serious. Have a look at the
Constitution at the following article:
CHAPTER IV SECT 77
Vertical Integration Board
77. There shall be a Vertical Integration Board, with such powers of
adjudication and administration as the Governing Body deems necessary for
the execution and maintenance of States, within the Federation, of the
provisions of this Constitution relating to trade, commerce and foreign
policies, and of all laws made there under:
The Vertical Integration Board shall immediately take control and
dissolve the following organizations, of which this list is not exhausted
according to the directives that the Governing Body may execute; shall be:
The Tri-Lateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, The United
Nations, The Bilderberg Group, Club of Rome, Royal Institute of
International Affairs.
DO YOU SEE the organisations mentioned above that GN is going to
dissolve? The most powerful organisations on earth! These organisations
would have jumped on GN immeditely if they were not privy too it. This is
serious S***. Think people think.
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Robodoon - you are such a stupid ass. What your basically saying is that
because you believe the Rockefeller Foundation is evil that Amadeus
Rockefeller and Global Nation must be evil too. That's like saying if
Robodoon had a cousin who was a serial killer - then Robodoon must be a
serial killer too. Now is that fair to speculate like that??? Asshole.
[This message has been edited by Nevaeh_the_Seraph (edited July 22,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 12:37 PM
Well make the point, tell me of One of these Helpful groups..I asked
about the Rockefeller Foundation..please give me an example of Good they
have done.. very easy question, but for some reason you can't answer...just
call me nasty names....golly

quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
While Nevaeh's termonology may be ruff around the edges his core
statement is sound. That is exactly the point I was trying to make Robodoon.
I may have chosen to phrase it in such a colorful fashion but the core
message is accurate none the less
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 12:43 PM
And Angel man Poops a brick....we know who you are.!!
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
WOW - what weed have you been smoking? Hahaha thats funnny!
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 12:44 PM
I guess you'll have to fire him then.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
As far as I know Nevaeh is not a representetive of Global Nation. If he
were then due to his emotional outbursts, as good intentioned as they may
be, would cause him to immedietly be removed from that post. So do not
compare him to the reps for Global Nation.
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 01:22 PM
Oh really. Who am I? And stop calling me a man. You think a women can't
outsmart you?
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
And Angel man Poops a brick....we know who you are.!!
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 01:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph: Don't threaten me either. You
dont know who I am and what I can do -
My curiosity is now piqued.
Just who do you think you are, and what do you think you have the power
to do?
If you're going to insinuate a threat, I'd like to at least know who is
making the threats.
BTW? I don't care if you are a man or a woman, as if that makes any
difference to me.
IP:
Logged
Nevaeh_the_Seraph
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 01:41 PM
I tell ya what mister. I'll email u my beautiful photo.

quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
My curiosity is now piqued.
Just who do you think you are, and what do you think you have the power
to do?
If you're going to insinuate a threat, I'd like to at least know who is
making the threats.
BTW? I don't care if you are a man or a woman, as if that makes any
difference to me.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 01:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
I tell ya what mister. I'll email u my beautiful photo.

Photo not necessary.
You act like a bigshot, I want to know that that bigshot can do.
Are you backing down?
Would you care to retract your threat and issue an apology? Or will you
continue to skirt the issue?
I have no problem with, and would enjoy debating you on the issue.
But I will not allow you to badger and attempt to intimidate other users
on this forum, nor post inaccurate statements of how you should be feared.
I certainly have no fear of you, but i do find you amusing.

IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 02:29 PM
Oh thats right change the topic.
So you are a small round lady with a short hair cut that hates men? LOL

quote:
Originally posted by Nevaeh_the_Seraph:
Oh really. Who am I? And stop calling me a man. You think a women can't
outsmart you?
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 03:14 PM
quote:
HA THATS A JOKE. I have noted how you seem to be very scared of the
things I have to say. Locking down two of my topics already. Is America such
a free country. Hell NO. You and this forum are living proof of this. And as
for cusing. Don't gimme no rubbish about that. I have read over a dozen or
so posts where cursing is frequent. And I ain't your pal. Don't threaten me
either. You dont know who I am and what I can do - pal. OOoooo your all so
scared of the federal authorities if you ask me. Freedom of speech -
phooey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Key set: echelon, terrorist, assassinate, president, anti-government, riot,
illuminati, al-Qaeda, bin Laden, espionage, spy, destroy, anarchy, national
security, Whitehouse, fbi, cia, nsa, fema, taliban, demonstration, anti-american,
nuclear, weapons; end key
Power corrupts and absolute power; corrupts absolutely
Does everyone see this?
Without even coming to power we are faced with minions who can't even keep
their fingers out of the power jar. Do you expect much better from those who
truly are elites?
The ones who claim they are becoming gods themselves....no really thats what
they are claiming.
But its not about Religion?.....right

[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 23, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 23, 2002 03:52 PM
Magus,
Are you up to some rational questions about Global Nation?
I have some serious questions that I would like you to entertain.
First, are you a representative of Global Nation?
If so, are you able to speak for Global nation on thier behalf about
policy and the Global Nation Constitution?
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited July 23,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 23, 2002 10:49 PM
I am always open to rational questions on any topic. To answer your
questions yes and yes. If you look at my email address you will see what my
real name is. If you go to the GN website you can verify that my name is on
the reps page. Now as for your other questions, shoot away.
IP:
Logged
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 24, 2002 02:15 PM
Now I realize that there is alot of different groups that see themselves
as third parties and blah blah blah. But wanting to create a one world
government, in turn creating a system with one ultimate power is rather
terrifying. If think that a One goverment would still allow us to choose our
government here at home, and have found others that are willing to believe
that garbage, then email their names to me, I have some Ocean front property
in Iowa that I would like to sell them.
You entire goal of a one world govt, in and of itself would cause more
problems than it would ever fix.
In fact, who was it that wanted to have one government to control the
world, oh yeah Hitler wanted that, now its all coming together.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 24, 2002 04:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I am always open to rational questions on any topic. To answer your
questions yes and yes. If you look at my email address you will see what my
real name is. If you go to the GN website you can verify that my name is on
the reps page. Now as for your other questions, shoot away.
OK, here are the first questions in the series of my questions.
CHAPTER V SECT 93
Religious observance and religious fundamentalism.
[b]93. The Federation shall not make any law for establishing any
religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the
free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a
qualification for any office or public trust under the Federation. However
the federation will not tolerate any extreme religious fundamentalism from
any state or group of people within a state; violators of any type of such
acts of fundamentalism will be exiled immediately from the Federation.
104 - 9. Presumption of Innocence:
(i) Each person charged with an offence has the right to be presumed
innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which
he/she has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(ii) No one shall be held guilty of any offence on account of any act or
omission which did not constitute an offence, under State or Federation law,
at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed
than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was
committed.
104 - 7. Property:
(i) Each person has the right to own property alone as well as in
association with others:
(ii) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of their property:
Define extreme fundamentalism?
If a person found guilty of "extreme" fundamentalism is to be exiled
immediately from the federation, does that not conflict with; Chapter 104 -
9, section (i)& (ii) and Chapter 107 (i) & (ii)?
Would the immediate exile of a person for fundamantalism, which is
undefined under the Global nation Constitution not allow hom equal
protection under the law and a gurantee of due process? What happens to his
finances and property? Is he allowd to liquidate his properties, investments
and assets to support himself in exile, or do those things become the
property of the state, with the exiled person being exiled as a pauper?
(ii) Control of Firearms: There shall be strict licensing and control
over the sale of firearms and their possession. Private ownership of highly
dangerous weapons is a breach of Federation security and is banned.
Define highly dangerous please? Any weapon may be seen as highly
dangerous. Do you propose banning all weapons on the hands of privae
citizens, or only functioning weapons capable of actually shooting bullets?
I, a member of the human family of planet Earth, do swear that I will be
faithful and bear true allegiance to the Supreme State Sovereign, His/Her
heirs and successors according to law. So help me God.
AFFIRMATION OF ALLEGIANCE
I, a member of the human family of planet Earth, do solemnly and
sincerely affirm and declare that I will be faithful and bear true
allegiance to the Supreme State Sovereign, His/Her heirs and successors
according to law.
Is this oath or allegiance mandatory? What happens if I as a citizen of a
country that signs on to the federation disagrees with the governing body of
the federation?
What happens if Oaths or Allegiances are against a person's religuous
beliefs? He he branded a fundamentalist and exiled without due process?
One more thing. Under your systen, my state would initially elect two
senators to represent me while I continue to pay taxes. These senators would
in turn elect the supreme leader? Where does taxation with representation
come into play here?
How can you quarantee that all people in the North American State will
get true representation?
Will the first Supreme State Soveriegn be Amadeus Rockefeller?
I await your answers.
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited July 24,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 24, 2002 07:18 PM
Bump because I want to read Magus's reply
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 24, 2002 11:20 PM
Thank you for your questions Constitutionalist. I see that you enjoy
asking the hard questions and I respect that. I shall do my best to answer
them to the best of my ability and we shall see if that is good enough.
1) Extreme fundamentalism. I would have to say that most religious
individuals are good people that simply want goodness for there fellow
people. A minority of those people could be classified as fundamentalists.
Those individuals feel so strong about their religion of choice that it
borders on near fantacism. Christians who inform as many non-christians as
possible they are going to Hell unless they convert. Muslims that declare
all infidels will be destroyed by the might of Allahs warriors, etc. Now
those who make threats and follow through would be extremests. Christions
that hunt down and kill abortion clinic doctors. Muslims that blow up non-muslims.
Those individuals that feel they must use violence (AND DO use violence)
against others in order to make their God happy.
2) 104-9 would not be violated because of due process. An individual
would have the right to a fair trial and would only be punished if found
guilty. As for the liquidation of assets I don't know. There is nothing in
the Constitution to resolve that issue. That is just one of the many laws
that the Governing Body of GN would have to pass. As for being a pauper in
exile you need to read the Constitution more closely. Criminals would not be
imprisoned or exiled to foreign nations. They would exiled to penal colonys.
They would be given the tools nessecery to grow their own food and survive
on their own and that is all. This way the only taxpayer money being spent
on criminals is the money required for the farming equipment and the
security to make sure they don't escape from their island prison (or
whatever location the colony happens to be). In this way minimull cost will
be placed upon the honest taxpayers.
3) Firearms. There is a difference between a .22 and a M16. Between a
hunting rifle or shotgun and a bazooka. Even in the US the more dangerous
firearms are only legal to those with the proper permit. I don't think
Bazookas and Vulcan cannons would be necessary or appropriate in the
civilian population. Again the specifics laws will have to be made by the
elected represenetives.
4) Many governments including the US require an individual to make an
oath when they recieve a high ranking office or other government position.
If you disagree with the governing body then you may either move to a nation
that is not part of the federation or simply wait till election time and
vote for a different candidate, same things you can do now.
5) Actually each region has 3 senetors. The income tax rate is written in
the constitution. As to other taxes (sales,etc.) those laws will be written
by the senetors when they are elected.
6) How can you guarentee that your current politicaians are representing
you now. Pay attention to what they are doing and if you don't like it, then
to reelect them. Same as any other polotician.
7) There is no way to tell who the first Supreme State Soveriegn will be.
Amadeus himself has completely refuses to even entertain the thought he
himself being chosen. He has already refused to be considered.
8)There are 3 Senators per state. These representing a Positive Motion, A
Negative Motion and a Neutral Motion. The Neutral will listen to the
arguments that the other two senators from that state make about a proposed
law or amendment and will support the argument that is deemed for the best
interests of the people. That decision is then put to the Regional Senate as
an agreed whole vote 'for' or 'against'.
The Sovereign is chosen by the Regional Senate and the High Council. The
selection process is subject to high scrutiny and an elimination process of
which the candidate is subject to the conditions set out in the
constitution. What makes the sovereign selection so different from our
current system of empowering heads of state is that You don't need to be
rich or a politician to be nominated. Anyone who meets the requirements set
out in section 106 can be nominated and put before the Governing body in the
selection process.
CHAPTER X SECT 106
Installation of the Supreme State Sovereign
106. The installation of the Supreme State Sovereign shall be chosen by
the Governing Body of the Federation and the term of power shall be for ten
years before another Supreme State Sovereign is selected for succession. The
Supreme State Sovereign shall be chosen from a group of prospective
applicants who demonstrates or show the ability in the following:
i. A person who is either male or female between the ages of 18 and
65years:
ii. A person either natural-born or for at least five years naturalized
under a law of the Federation, or of a region which has become or becomes a
State, or of the Federation, or of a State:
iii. A person who is able to show great compassion for fellow human
beings:
iv. A person who is an advocate of Freedom and Equality of all races:
v. A person who believes in the advancement of the human race for the
benefit of the Common Good:
vi. A person who shuns those who pursue monetary gain and material gain
over the well being of fellow humans:
vii. A person dedicated to protecting all those who may suffer under the
authority of oppression or under the hands of those who wish to dominate
people to their injury:
viii. A person who believes in peaceful co-habitation with fellow human
beings:
ix. A person able to display diplomacy:
x. A person of moderation and mid temperament:
xi. A person who will uphold the laws of the Constitution:
xii. A person willing to sacrifice their time to loyally serve the people
of the federation:
xiii. A person of competent and sound mind who is able to carry out their
functions as the Sovereign leader of the federation:
xiv. A person that has no affiliation with any political group or civil
association. Unless however they cut all ties and contacts with such groups
or associations on their appointment:
I hope I have answered your questions to your satisfaction. If you have
any other questions feel free to ask.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 25, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 25, 2002 12:11 AM
Sorry, I shall take my chances with what I have now. As NASCAR has
pointed out, I'll stay with my beach front sea of corn in Iowa. Whether I be
alone in my belief, so be it. I for one wish to remain independent from the
world and the likes of this.
If that makes me feeble minded in your point of view, you're welcome to
it. I'll take feeble minded over your feeble hearted anyday.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 01:11 AM
Feeble hearted? Ouch.
I
don't think you are feeble minded. Everyone is entitled to their own
opinion. I have my opinion and you have yours. Feeble hearted though? I
don't see how that statement has any basis in reality. I hope you can be a
little more constructive next time. Personal flames do not enhance the
debate, it simply detracts from it.

IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 25, 2002 02:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Feeble hearted? Ouch.
I
don't think you are feeble minded. Everyone is entitled to their own
opinion. I have my opinion and you have yours. Feeble hearted though? I
don't see how that statement has any basis in reality. I hope you can be a
little more constructive next time. Personal flames do not enhance the
debate, it simply detracts from it.

My post was not directed at you personally, rather you and your likes
intentions.
But perhaps you felt threatened by my statement because it got to your
heart?
I am being constructive. I'm finding ways and educating people that we
can have great societies free of your socialist/communist/one/new world
order utopia plans. There are better solutions than your plans. It was once
what America was. I intend to live in this country to see the day that such
an America will return.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 02:59 AM
Wasn't on TV
sad
to say but that is about it.
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like
a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like
the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created
screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil
interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to
as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international
bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish
purposes. They practically control both political parties." New York City
Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our
meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.
It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we
had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the
world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world
government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world
bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in
past centuries."
David Rockefeller Baden-Baden, Germany 1991
"We can see beyond the present shadows of war in the Middle East to a new
world order where the strong work together to deter and stop aggression.
This was precisely Franklin Roosevelt's and Winston Churchill's vision for
peace for the post-war period."
Richard Gephardt, in The Wall Street Journal (September 1990)
"We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest
or consent." Statement by Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member James
Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950
"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me
privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of
commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there
is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked,
so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath
when they speak in condemnation of it."
Woodrow Wilson,The New Freedom (1913)
"If we do not follow the dictates of our inner moral compass and stand up
for human life, then his lawlessness will threaten the peace and democracy
of the emerging new world order we now see, this long dreamed-of vision
we've all worked toward for so long."
President George Bush (January 1991)
"But it became clear as time went on that in Mr. Bush's mind the New
World Order was founded on a convergence of goals and interests between the
U.S. and the Soviet Union, so strong and permanent that they would work as a
team through the U.N. Security Council."
Excerpt from A. M. Rosenthal, in The New York Times (January 1991)
"I would support a Presidential candidate who pledged to take the
following steps: ... At the end of the war in the Persian Gulf, press for a
comprehensive Middle East settlement and for a 'new world order' based not
on Pax Americana but on peace through law with a stronger U.N. and World
Court."
George McGovern, in The New York Times (February 1991)
"... it's Bush's baby, even if he shares its popularization with
Gorbachev. Forget the Hitler 'new order' root; F.D.R. used the phrase
earlier."
William Safire, in The New York Times (February 1991)
"How I Learned to Love the New World Order" -- Article by Sen. Joseph R.
Biden, Jr. in Tthe Wall Street Journal (April 1992)
How to Achieve The New World Order -- Title of book excerpt by Henry
Kissinger, in Time magazine (March 1994)
"The Final Act of the Uruguay Round, marking the conclusion of the most
ambitious trade negotiation of our century, will give birth - in Morocco -
to the World Trade Organization, the third pillar of the New World Order,
along with the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund."
The "new world order that is in the making must focus on the creation of
a world of democracy, peace and prosperity for all."
Nelson Mandela, in The Philadelphia Inquirer (October 1994)
The renewal of the nonproliferation treaty was described as important "for
the welfare of the whole world and the new world order."
President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, in The New York Times (April 1995)
"Alchemy for a New World Order" -- article by Stephen John Stedman in
Foreign Affairs (May/June 1995)
"One-fourth of humanity must be eliminated from the social body. We are in
charge of God's selection process for planet earth. He selects, we destroy.
We are the riders of the pale horse, Death."
Psychologist Barbara Marx Hubbard - member and futurist/strategist of Task
Force Delta; a United States Army think tank.
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited June 02, 2002).]
>>> This is unbelievably scary stuff. How has it been kept so hush hush
for so long?
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 25, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
You know if you have some data to disprove this site is related to the
Rockefellers I would like to see it.
If you read this and you are to scared to respond, think how you are going
to feel in a few years. If you're to scared to talk now, you will be to
scared later. so what it going to be, mice or men....?
>>>"Is life so pure or peace so sweet to be bound by chains and slavery?
Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what others may choose but as for me give
me liberty or give me death." Patrick Henry....Perhaps the best quote in
history
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by curiousgirl:
Robo, there you go scaring people again! I've checked out the sites and
hope many others do too. With the problems in the Catholic church, the end
of that religion doesn't seem too far off. The pope's health is
deteriorating and he'll be gone soon. I read somewhere that along with a
global g'ment, there'll also be a global religion. This is pretty darn
creepy. What do others think?
>>> that is what Revelations says.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
My post was not directed at you personally, rather you and your likes
intentions.
But perhaps you felt threatened by my statement because it got to your
heart?
I am being constructive. I'm finding ways and educating people that we
can have great societies free of your socialist/communist/one/new world
order utopia plans. There are better solutions than your plans. It was once
what America was. I intend to live in this country to see the day that such
an America will return.
I hardly am of the opinion that I am "feeble hearted" so no your
statement did not touch my heart in the way you think. As for our proposed
way of global governance it is hardly socialist or communist. As for Utopian
it is hardly that either. Wanting to improve the current state of things
does not make one a utopian thinker simply a decent human being. We all
should do our part to make things better instead of making them worse. I am
simply doing that in the best way I view possible. I would appreciate it if
you would read the documents listed on the webpage a little more completely
before you start making unfounded accusations like socialism or communism
again.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
>>>"Is life so pure or peace so sweet to be bound by chains and slavery?
Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what others may choose but as for me give
me liberty or give me death." Patrick Henry....Perhaps the best quote in
history
When your right, your right. Not much else to say on that.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 25, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
You obviously have not done your research on Global Nation. If you
actually read whats on the sight there is obviously no intention to get rid
of the Christians and Jews. Global Nation is so for the Hebrew religions
that it is almost funny. As for the rich gaining power, Global Nation would
still be a democracy. So the only way the rich or corrupt could get in power
would be if the people elected them.
>>> Since when has democracy been equated with freedom? Many historical
people have warned of "democracy" leading to tyranny.
Lenin claimed the USSR was democratic. Come to think of it they had
elections in the USSR. Did this mean they were free?
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
1st of all democracy is not evil. It is a system of government that has
pros and cons. The same is true of all systems of government. None are
inherently evil. Only the people that abuse the respective systems to which
they are apart. We are both correct as to the status of the USA since it is
in fact a domocratic republic. You can not blame all rich people for the
problems of the poor since not all rich people are out to hurt mankind. Such
a broad generilization is never accurate and always creates problems like
the Jim Crow laws that were created to keep black people as second class
citizens. Each person has to be judged on their own merits, not broad
judgements of a whole class of society. As to the alegations of satanic
symbolism, where is your evidence? The use of Jehovah's name in the original
Hebrew? Oh yes that is quite evil. As for the Ark of Hope being my new
religion, I don't think so. I don't have a problem with those who want to be
a part of the various nature religions, but that is not who I am.
http://www.uri.org
Check that out. If the book of revelations is real that is another
candidate for the one world religion.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 17, 2002).]
>>> Revelations does not embrace a one world religion, it warns against
it. And democracies always end up tyrannical. Please show me one that did
not.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Feeble hearted? Ouch.
I
don't think you are feeble minded. Everyone is entitled to their own
opinion. I have my opinion and you have yours. Feeble hearted though? I
don't see how that statement has any basis in reality. I hope you can be a
little more constructive next time. Personal flames do not enhance the
debate, it simply detracts from it.

>>> You stated earlier that any person choosing not to be a member or who is
expelled can live in a country that has not joined this union. With the
world being cut up into sections, where would these "non conforming" states
be? And what would prevent the global govt from controlling them?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 04:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
>>> Revelations does not embrace a one world religion, it warns against
it. And democracies always end up tyrannical. Please show me one that did
not.
I never said I supported the idea of a one world religion and I don't
know of anyone that does but maybe you do. As for the idea of a democracy
you are correct. However that is why the founders of the USA created a
democratic republic not simply one or the other. They attempted to blend the
best points of both styles of government and I feel that overall they did a
pretty darn good job. If you read the GN constitution you would see that we
have done the same. If you see anything in the document that you feel is
left out or could be improved upon let me know. We are human and there for
are naturally imperfect. Suggestions are always appreciated.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 04:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
>>> You stated earlier that any person choosing not to be a member or who is
expelled can live in a country that has not joined this union. With the
world being cut up into sections, where would these "non conforming" states
be? And what would prevent the global govt from controlling them?
The only nations that will be apart of GN are the ones that choose to be.
If a nation chooses not to be apart of GN then they won't be. It's not that
complicated really.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 25, 2002 10:27 AM
Vecause of the duties I have as a moderator, I am compelled to move this
thread to the category of Globalism.
This is not a punative action, but rather a function of keeping things
orderly.
Please continue the discussion in the Globalism forum.
Magus,
I will respond to your answers to my questions this afternoon. I must go
see some of my clients now.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 02:52 PM
I have a question Magus. You have stated that those countries who wish
not to join this global government will not be forced to do so. Now tell me
what will the ramifications of not joining be? Will they see UN style
"peacekeeping" troops or will they be refused trade with member countries?
Or perhaps could any negotiations done with member countries be unfairly
bent to favor members of this global government?
One last question for now. Presently the make up of the UN is mostly
leaders from countries with either oppresive regimes or substantially less
freedom then Americans are acustomed. This in mind, when an election takes
place, what is to prevent these rulers from gaining control and imposing
such measures on the rest of mankind? The Constitution itself will not stop
such transgressions as our own Constitution have been circumvented time and
time again.
Is it not in mankinds best interest to have "competing" nations so that
in the event of oppression people can attempt to escape to other countries?
With a one world government, if such atrocities should come to fruition
there will be no place for the oppressed masses to flee to.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 25, 2002 03:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Thank you for your questions Constitutionalist. I see that you enjoy
asking the hard questions and I respect that. I shall do my best to answer
them to the best of my ability and we shall see if that is good enough.
1) Extreme fundamentalism. I would have to say that most religious
individuals are good people that simply want goodness for there fellow
people. A minority of those people could be classified as fundamentalists.
Those individuals feel so strong about their religion of choice that it
borders on near fantacism. Christians who inform as many non-christians as
possible they are going to Hell unless they convert. Muslims that declare
all infidels will be destroyed by the might of Allahs warriors, etc. Now
those who make threats and follow through would be extremests. Christions
that hunt down and kill abortion clinic doctors. Muslims that blow up non-muslims.
Those individuals that feel they must use violence (AND DO use violence)
against others in order to make their God happy.
Proselytizing is acceptable? Would preaching from the pulpit about
homosexuality being a sin be acceptable? Would the denial of women or gays
becoming clergy within a church be acceptable? Would the Constitution of the
federation before the establishment of the federation became a reality be
willing to reflect freedom of speech in religious matter from the puplit and
in public, or would only P.C.ism be the norm.
Wheile we are on the subject, would a citizen of Global Nation enjoy
feeedom of speech when being critical of government? Would the Constitution
specify this also, before the Global nation became a reality?
You need a more specific Bill of Rights to gurantee specific rights of
the individual, written in terms that are plain and not subject to
interpretation to fit the scenario.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
2) 104-9 would not be violated because of due process. An individual would
have the right to a fair trial and would only be punished if found guilty.
As for the liquidation of assets I don't know. There is nothing in the
Constitution to resolve that issue. That is just one of the many laws that
the Governing Body of GN would have to pass.
What the governing body must do, is to install guaranteed rights to the
people. The rights that you have now are broad and non-specific, which could
be used by the Governing body to control the people. These rights must be
specific and must have teeth, to gurantee the governing body does not become
tyrannical.
Tell me. Would the Federation governing body be a government for the
people, by the people? What gurantees do you issue to the people that you
will leave them alone?
The Federtion already appears top heavy, with few local representatives.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
As for being a pauper in exile you need to read the Constitution more
closely. Criminals would not be imprisoned or exiled to foreign nations.
They would exiled to penal colonys. They would be given the tools nessecery
to grow their own food and survive on their own and that is all. This way
the only taxpayer money being spent on criminals is the money required for
the farming equipment and the security to make sure they don't escape from
their island prison (or whatever location the colony happens to be). In this
way minimull cost will be placed upon the honest taxpayers.
What happens to a criminals assets and money? Does the state confiscate
it? Or does it pass to his heirs?
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
3) Firearms. There is a difference between a .22 and a M16. Between a
hunting rifle or shotgun and a bazooka. Even in the US the more dangerous
firearms are only legal to those with the proper permit. I don't think
Bazookas and Vulcan cannons would be necessary or appropriate in the
civilian population. Again the specifics laws will have to be made by the
elected represenetives.
magus, your spewing the normal line of a U.S. anti-gun whacko.
No one is asking to keep a bazooka. The Constitution of the Federation
needs to gurantee the right to bear arms, and to define what those
acceptable arms are vs, the unacceptable ones.
The Constitution is too broad and encompassing when it defines an
unaceptable firearm as being a dnagerous firearm. It's too open to
interpretation to the wims of the folks in power.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
4) Many governments including the US require an individual to make an
oath when they recieve a high ranking office or other government position.
If you disagree with the governing body then you may either move to a nation
that is not part of the federation or simply wait till election time and
vote for a different candidate, same things you can do now.
Can I be critical and vocal of the federation without fear of reprisal?
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
7) There is no way to tell who the first Supreme State Soveriegn will be.
Amadeus himself has completely refuses to even entertain the thought he
himself being chosen. He has already refused to be considered. .
Speaking of Amadeus,
I cannot find any biographical info on him. Most all links on the net
link back to the Global Nation.
How old is this guy. Is he of THE Rockefeller family? Where was he born?
Where was he educated. Does the Rockefeller family endorce Global Nation?
How about some background on Amadeus, please?
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I hope I have answered your questions to your satisfaction. If you have
any other questions feel free to ask.
You've been a great help. However, I need more specification on some
points as you can see.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 03:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
I have a question Magus. You have stated that those countries who wish
not to join this global government will not be forced to do so. Now tell me
what will the ramifications of not joining be? Will they see UN style
"peacekeeping" troops or will they be refused trade with member countries?
Or perhaps could any negotiations done with member countries be unfairly
bent to favor members of this global government?
One last question for now. Presently the make up of the UN is mostly
leaders from countries with either oppresive regimes or substantially less
freedom then Americans are acustomed. This in mind, when an election takes
place, what is to prevent these rulers from gaining control and imposing
such measures on the rest of mankind? The Constitution itself will not stop
such transgressions as our own Constitution have been circumvented time and
time again.
Is it not in mankinds best interest to have "competing" nations so that
in the event of oppression people can attempt to escape to other countries?
With a one world government, if such atrocities should come to fruition
there will be no place for the oppressed masses to flee to.
Non-members would not be punished for their choice. They simply would not
have the benefits of being a member state. As far as negotiations are
concerned it would be just like when one nation is negotiating with another
nation. When the USA formed all member states became one nation. Same
concept with GN.
The people will vote for whom they choose. If an individual is corrupt I
would hope the people would not vote for them. If a GN senetor or other high
ranking official is found to be corrupt they will be removed. Corrupt
regiems also will be removed.
As to whether seperate or united nations is a better idea that is a
matter of personal opinion isn't it? With seperate nations you will continue
to have war with more and more powerful weapons.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 04:26 PM
Constitutionalist,
We constantly are discussing amongst ourselves what revisions,
clarifications, and additions need to be made to the constitution. The
document is not "finalized" and certain topics are taking longer to be
included due to the importance of making sure everything is phrased
correctly. We don't want any confusion as to the meaning of any parts of the
document. So yes the freedoms will be specified and added at a later date.
Thats simply not something you would want to be hasty about though is it?
Too important to make a mistake about. You have to realize that Global
Nation is still a very young organization and is still developing as such.
Would you please explain what you mean by "top heavy". You would still have
your city, county, state, and federal government and respective
constitutions. This would simply be another layer to hadle the issues that
should be handled at the global level.
As for the gun issue I have already stated that the document is being
revised and the more fine details and specifics are still being developed.
Yes you can be openly critical of the federation. Without input from the
public how can the government properly serve the people?
As for Amadeus you will probably find very little info on him other than
his occupation as a screen writer. If you want to know more about him I
suggest you simply e-mail him and ask him yourself. Thats what I did.
Thank you for your questions I hope I cleared up some points for you.
If you or any one else would like to contact any of the GN reps
(including Amadeus) or have any suggestions on how we could improve the
proposed constitution you may send an e-mail to: GlobalNation@Rockefeller.com.au
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 25, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 25, 2002 04:50 PM
http://www.oasistv.com/recent.asp?story=http://www.oasistv.com/news/1-23-02-story-2.asp
Gorby called our new ten commandments
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I never said I supported the idea of a one world religion and I don't
know of anyone that does but maybe you do. As for the idea of a democracy
you are correct. However that is why the founders of the USA created a
democratic republic not simply one or the other. They attempted to blend the
best points of both styles of government and I feel that overall they did a
pretty darn good job. If you read the GN constitution you would see that we
have done the same. If you see anything in the document that you feel is
left out or could be improved upon let me know. We are human and there for
are naturally imperfect. Suggestions are always appreciated.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 25, 2002 04:53 PM
No?
Well today we are called protectionists and isolationists, by the globalist
crowd.
Heck the people in Canada are told we are selfish for wanting to hold
America ,,for Americans.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
The only nations that will be apart of GN are the ones that choose to be.
If a nation chooses not to be apart of GN then they won't be. It's not that
complicated really.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 04:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
[[/B]
>>> when referring to guns you said that no one is desiring to own a
bazooka. Maybe, maybe not but doe this not lead us to arbitrary restriction.
As for me I say let them own whatever gun they choose. Criminals, whether
citizens or government officials will have no such barriers why should we?
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 05:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Non-members would not be punished for their choice. They simply would not
have the benefits of being a member state. As far as negotiations are
concerned it would be just like when one nation is negotiating with another
nation. When the USA formed all member states became one nation. Same
concept with GN.
The people will vote for whom they choose. If an individual is corrupt I
would hope the people would not vote for them. If a GN senetor or other high
ranking official is found to be corrupt they will be removed. Corrupt
regiems also will be removed.
As to whether seperate or united nations is a better idea that is a
matter of personal opinion isn't it? With seperate nations you will continue
to have war with more and more powerful weapons.
.>> Today we do not remove corrupt officials, what makes you think that a
one world govt would change this. Most people on the face of this earth are
used to living under corruption and oppression, are we to suppose that
suddenly they are going to make a stand against such aggregious behavior?
I do not think the latter is a matter of opinion. You have not answered
the question of what to do if this union falls into corrupt hands. As far as
war; many more people throughout history have died at the hands of their
government then through any war. Therefore yes I will take war over
oppression any day. One world leads to one voice which leads ultimately to
tyranny. The Bible even tells us of the dreaded last days with a global
government. I do not desire such an institution and would rather perish then
be forced into such a world.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 05:17 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Magus:
[B]Constitutionalist,
We constantly are discussing amongst ourselves what revisions,
clarifications, and additions need to be made to the constitution. The
document is not "finalized" and certain topics are taking longer to be
included due to the importance of making sure everything is phrased
correctly. We don't want any confusion as to the meaning of any parts of the
document. So yes the freedoms will be specified and added at a later date.
Thats simply not something you would want to be hasty about though is it?
Too important to make a mistake about. You have to realize that Global
Nation is still a very young organization and is still developing as such.
Would you please explain what you mean by "top heavy". You would still have
your city, county, state, and federal government and respective
constitutions. This would simply be another layer to hadle the issues that
should be handled at the global level.
>>>>>>ANOTHER LAYER OF TAXES TOO. AND EXACTLY WHEN SHOULD WE EXPECT TO KNOW
THESE FREEDOMS OR WILL THIS BE A "LIVING, BREATHING" DOCUMENT?
As for the gun issue I have already stated that the document is being
revised and the more fine details and specifics are still being developed.
>>> MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO DESIRE A GLOBAL ENTITY ARE FOR THE REMOVAL OF
ALL CIVILIAN ARMS. wHAT IS THE AMENDMENT PROCESS HERE AND WHAT WILL KEEP
THIS FREEDOM FROM BEING REMOVED SHORTLY AFTER MEMBERSHIP IS ESTABLISHED?
Yes you can be openly critical of the federation. Without input from the
public how can the government properly serve the people?
>>> I REMEMBER READING OF A SIMILAR SITUATION IN COMMUNIST CHINA UNDER
MAO. I BELIEVE IT WAS CALLED "THE HUNDRED FLOWERS PERIOD" (1956-1957) OF
COURSE AFTER THOSE WHO HAD SPOKEN OUT WERE CONSIDERED RIGHTISTS AND WERE
SUBSEQUENTLY SENT TO THEIR DEATH OR FOR "REEDUCATION"
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 05:41 PM
Well it says in the constitution that citizens may own firearms. Sons I
know you are highly skeptical of GN and I respect that. However instead of
me eventually posting every line from the document why don't you read it
yourself or look in the table of contents and read the parts you are
concerned about. Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with answering
questions. However if you have the means to find out on your own why not
persue it and then if you need clarification come to me. Thats why we have
the document posted on the net for everyone to read.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 25, 2002 06:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Well it says in the constitution that citizens may own firearms. Sons I
know you are highly skeptical of GN and I respect that. However instead of
me eventually posting every line from the document why don't you read it
yourself or look in the table of contents and read the parts you are
concerned about. Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with answering
questions. However if you have the means to find out on your own why not
persue it and then if you need clarification come to me. Thats why we have
the document posted on the net for everyone to read.
Magus,
I believe that my problem with accepting a Global Government lies here.
1) America is a propserous nation. The rest of the world expects America
to dole out money to support the rest of the world.
As a small business man myself, who runs a small and profitable business
through hard work, and my own risk capital, I am not willing to give any
more in additional tax money on top of the money I already give my own
government. Correct me if I am wrong, but the proposed federation of Global
Nation has it's hand out for more money, that will be funneled to the rest
of the world's thirtd world nation's peoples to elevate their position in
life. That's called welfare and social engineering.
What I see is the leveling of the playing field for all, and the removal
of my comforts and finances to give comfort and finances to someone I don't
even know.
Now, I tithe and give to charaties, I support foreign causes through
charitable contributions.
How can you gurantee me that the proposed federation will not become a
bloated bureaurocrasy that is wasteful and irresponsible with the funds it
takes in in taxes from me? My own government does it, I am not sure the
federation wouldn't do the same.
2) In America I am reasonably left alone to live my life. I am law
abiding. I have property. I have guns. I have a voice to speek out. I have
liberty. I have religious freedom.
Why would I not expect a federation body made up of europeans, thirtd
world nations, socialist and communist countries to somehow remove my
liberties, finances and property to benefit someone they deem fit to give it
to?
Why would I not expect the federation member nations who are increasingly
becoming more hateful and hostile towards Americans and our way of life to
rule with my best interests at heart?
3)In America I have a Bill of Rights, A Constitution that still offers a
reasonable about of protections to me, the individual. I have a Government
that still is the best in the world, in spite all it's problems.
Why would I want to trade that in for a domestic government that would be
a puppet
for a Global Government?
4) Your constitution states that only the federation would coin money,
that all money would be equal in value in all states.
That tells me that your constitution would dictate that my American money
would be devalued in order to meet the value of foriegn currencies of third
world nations. This would wipe me out and destroy everything I have worked
for and will pass to my children. (I am sure the Rockefeller family would
somehow escape that fate.)
Why would I want to see my hard work and savings destroyed so that sone
other country's people can attain prosperity at my and millians of
American's expense?
5) I will only swear an oath to the Son of God, Jesus Christ. I will only
swear allegiance to my flag and country. I will die for what I cherish, my
freedoms and liberty, and my fear is that my beliefs are in opposition to
Global Nation.
Global Nation appears to be founded by a Rockefeller, who is a total
enigma and a Mystery to me.
I don't trust the Rockefellers, or any other one world, utopian,
globalist, nor do O favor any type of Global movement, as Scripture has
plainly pointed out, that one world currencies and globalism is insideous
and will be destructive to the world.
I believe Global Nation to be the camel's nose under the tent. That on
the surface, the movement appears to be benevolent and altruistic, but
underneath there is no room for people like myself who believe in God first,
individuality, hard work, and ethics.
I see the proposed federation as a forced system upon me and others, and
that I will have no voice, and would be subjected to the will amd wims of a
Socialistic and tyranical system.
Magus,
I respect that you seek world peace and prosperity.
A rule of economics is this. For one person to be wealthy, another must
not be. For everyone to have a decent standard of living would only serve to
lower the standards of living of those judged to be too wealthy or
prosperous. That is a mark of communism. Punish the inovative and hard
workers to improve the lot of those who are only marginal in their work
ethic and inovation.
The Federation would serve only to control people, so that a few elites
would have the comforts and prestige upon the backs of the masses. Again, a
communistic system dressed up as some benevolent and altruistic system.
The Federation would do better to channel it's resourses into propagating
democracy, and liberty worldwide. So that all peoples could realize their
full potential, with less regulating and intrusive government, rather than a
whole new encompasing government added to the mix.
I am afraid that the proposed federation seeks to make things better for
some, by making all people total equals in all ways, in religion, finances,
property, liberties, and thought, even if under coersion and force.
I am and American. I respect your freedom to air your ideas, and would
like to continue to discuss this with you as time permits.
However, I think that if the Federation came to fruition, that myself and
others would be presecuted and either executed or exiled for our refusal to
swear affirmation or allegiance to the proposed federation. For being
individuals rather then being part of the collective.
What say you, my friend?
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 25, 2002 07:57 PM
Magus,
Why do you feel that you must come to this one message board and win our
hearts and minds?
Second, you never really addressed what I asked. Instead of this one
world global government, why don't we instead try to make the nations of the
world independent republics modled similar to the United States?
It seems to me you are simply going for what looks to be the easy
solution in your mind - but not the best.
Question: Why a global government?
Answer: Bescause someone or something will benefit.
What other answer is there than that? And I don't for one second buy your
theories that it's society, the people of the world that will benefit. In
reality that would never happen. One group will benefit and everyone else
will die. I don't buy any of this. This is for someone else's benefit, not
mine or anyone else here.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 25, 2002 10:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Magus,
Why do you feel that you must come to this one message board and win our
hearts and minds?
Second, you never really addressed what I asked. Instead of this one
world global government, why don't we instead try to make the nations of the
world independent republics modled similar to the United States?
It seems to me you are simply going for what looks to be the easy
solution in your mind - but not the best.
Question: Why a global government?
Answer: Bescause someone or something will benefit.
What other answer is there than that? And I don't for one second buy your
theories that it's society, the people of the world that will benefit. In
reality that would never happen. One group will benefit and everyone else
will die. I don't buy any of this. This is for someone else's benefit, not
mine or anyone else here.
Magus is a GN representative in the U.S., I believe.
Are there promises issued here from GN for his tireless work?

IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 25, 2002 10:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Magus,
Why do you feel that you must come to this one message board and win our
hearts and minds?
Second, you never really addressed what I asked. Instead of this one
world global government, why don't we instead try to make the nations of the
world independent republics modled similar to the United States?
It seems to me you are simply going for what looks to be the easy
solution in your mind - but not the best.
Question: Why a global government?
Answer: Bescause someone or something will benefit.
What other answer is there than that? And I don't for one second buy your
theories that it's society, the people of the world that will benefit. In
reality that would never happen. One group will benefit and everyone else
will die. I don't buy any of this. This is for someone else's benefit, not
mine or anyone else here.
I cannpt trust a movement, where the founder is shrouded in mystery, who
comes from an elitest family.
Were Amadeus Rockefeller to denounce his wealth and family, and to come
forward with his views and background himself, I would be more prone to
listening to his ideas.
Since he has a group of mouthpieces who speak for him and since he
remains an enigma, I kind of get the creeps about him.
Is he too good to interface with the common man?

IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 10:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Well it says in the constitution that citizens may own firearms. Sons I
know you are highly skeptical of GN and I respect that. However instead of
me eventually posting every line from the document why don't you read it
yourself or look in the table of contents and read the parts you are
concerned about. Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with answering
questions. However if you have the means to find out on your own why not
persue it and then if you need clarification come to me. Thats why we have
the document posted on the net for everyone to read.
>>> I have reviewed many of the documents and it scares me greatly. I am
trying to pose questions in order to have others, perhaps yourself included,
think through this issue and perhaps come up with critical questions
themselves. Anyone other then God who controls the entire world will pose a
threat. Funny how we concern ourselves with companies which gain monopolies,
yet when governments do we show no such concern. Are governments not made up
of men just as companies are? Both have the ability to abuse their power.
The difference is with a company I can choose an alternative or one will
surely be created out of necessity. With government the alternative is
frequently death.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 10:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Magus,
>>> i REALIZE THIS WAS NOT DIRECTED AT ME BUT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD MY
THOUGHTS AS WELL.
What I see is the leveling of the playing field for all, and the removal of
my comforts and finances to give comfort and finances to someone I don't
even know.
>>>>ITS CALLED EQUALITY OF MISERY.
Now, I tithe and give to charaties, I support foreign causes through
charitable contributions.
How can you gurantee me that the proposed federation will not become a
bloated bureaurocrasy that is wasteful and irresponsible with the funds it
takes in in taxes from me? My own government does it, I am not sure the
federation wouldn't do the same.
>>> iT CERTAINLY WILL. ALL GOVERNMENTS HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF SUCH
MANIFESTATIONS, THIS ONE WILL BE NO DIFFERENT. gOVERNMENTS PRODUCE NOTHING,
THEY ONLY TAKE, THEREFORE THEY ARE INHERENTLY WASTEFUL.
2) In America I am reasonably left alone to live my life. I am law abiding.
I have property. I have guns. I have a voice to speek out. I have liberty. I
have religious freedom.
Why would I not expect a federation body made up of europeans, thirtd
world nations, socialist and communist countries to somehow remove my
liberties, finances and property to benefit someone they deem fit to give it
to?
>>> ACTUALLY I THINK THE QUESTION SHOULD BE, "WHY SHOULD I GIVE UP THESE
FOR WHAT I PERCEIVE TO BE NO BETTER AND WILL MOST LIKELY END UP WORSE?" (
THE ANSWER IS PROBABLY SECURITY- FOR THIS I REPLY THAT ONE SHOULD NEVER GIVE
UP THEIR FREEDOM FOR ANY SECURITY)
Why would I not expect the federation member nations who are increasingly
becoming more hateful and hostile towards Americans and our way of life to
rule with my best interests at heart?
>>> i AGREE AND PRESUME THAT AMERICANS WILL BE OUTVOTED AND INCURR THE
REST OF THE WORLD'S WRATH.
3)In America I have a Bill of Rights, A Constitution that still offers a
reasonable about of protections to me, the individual. I have a Government
that still is the best in the world, in spite all it's problems.
Why would I want to trade that in for a domestic government that would be
a puppet
for a Global Government?
>>> A HEN IN THE HAND IS WORTH 2 IN THE BUSH
4) Your constitution states that only the federation would coin money,
that all money would be equal in value in all states.
That tells me that your constitution would dictate that my American money
would be devalued in order to meet the value of foriegn currencies of third
world nations. This would wipe me out and destroy everything I have worked
for and will pass to my children. (I am sure the Rockefeller family would
somehow escape that fate.)
>>>> SURE THEY HAVE PROBABLY BOUGHT COMODITIES OR UNDOUBTABLY KNOW WHAT
THE EXCHANGE WILL BE BEFORE HAND. CERTAINLY THIS WOULD EFFECT REGIONAL
ECONOMIES AS PRODUCTS WILL NOT FETCH THE SAME VALUE EVERYWHERE. ex ( $300
AMERICAN TODAY BUYS A TV IN THE US....IN THE SUDAN IT PROBABLY IS ENOUGH TO
LIVE ON FOR A YEAR) FOR THESE DISCREPANCIES TO VANISH SOME PLACES WOULD HAVE
TO SEE RAMPID INFLATION AND OTHERS SEVERE DEFLATION.
Why would I want to see my hard work and savings destroyed so that sone
other country's people can attain prosperity at my and millians of
American's expense?
5) I will only swear an oath to the Son of God, Jesus Christ. I will only
swear allegiance to my flag and country. I will die for what I cherish, my
freedoms and liberty, and my fear is that my beliefs are in opposition to
Global Nation.
>>> I AGREE
Global Nation appears to be founded by a Rockefeller, who is a total
enigma and a Mystery to me.
I don't trust the Rockefellers, or any other one world, utopian,
globalist, nor do O favor any type of Global movement, as Scripture has
plainly pointed out, that one world currencies and globalism is insideous
and will be destructive to the world.
I believe Global Nation to be the camel's nose under the tent. That on
the surface, the movement appears to be benevolent and altruistic, but
underneath there is no room for people like myself who believe in God first,
individuality, hard work, and ethics.
>>>> THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.
I see the proposed federation as a forced system upon me and others, and
that I will have no voice, and would be subjected to the will amd wims of a
Socialistic and tyranical system.
>>>IM SURE AS MAGUS HAS STATED, THAT IT WILL BE VOLUNTARY, AT FIRST.
Magus,
I respect that you seek world peace and prosperity.
A rule of economics is this. For one person to be wealthy, another must
not be. For everyone to have a decent standard of living would only serve to
lower the standards of living of those judged to be too wealthy or
prosperous. That is a mark of communism. Punish the inovative and hard
workers to improve the lot of those who are only marginal in their work
ethic and inovation.
>>> ECONOMICS IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME
The Federation would serve only to control people, so that a few elites
would have the comforts and prestige upon the backs of the masses. Again, a
communistic system dressed up as some benevolent and altruistic system.
The Federation would do better to channel it's resourses into propagating
democracy, and liberty worldwide. So that all peoples could realize their
full potential, with less regulating and intrusive government, rather than a
whole new encompasing government added to the mix.
I am afraid that the proposed federation seeks to make things better for
some, by making all people total equals in all ways, in religion, finances,
property, liberties, and thought, even if under coersion and force.
.... I AM PERPLEXED TO SEE THAT IT WOULD BENEFIT ANY BUT THOSE IN POWER.
I am and American. I respect your freedom to air your ideas, and would
like to continue to discuss this with you as time permits.
However, I think that if the Federation came to fruition, that myself and
others would be presecuted and either executed or exiled for our refusal to
swear affirmation or allegiance to the proposed federation. For being
individuals rather then being part of the collective.
What say you, my friend?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 11:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Magus,
Why do you feel that you must come to this one message board and win our
hearts and minds?
Second, you never really addressed what I asked. Instead of this one
world global government, why don't we instead try to make the nations of the
world independent republics modled similar to the United States?
It seems to me you are simply going for what looks to be the easy
solution in your mind - but not the best.
Question: Why a global government?
Answer: Bescause someone or something will benefit.
What other answer is there than that? And I don't for one second buy your
theories that it's society, the people of the world that will benefit. In
reality that would never happen. One group will benefit and everyone else
will die. I don't buy any of this. This is for someone else's benefit, not
mine or anyone else here.
I am not trying to win anyones heart or mind. I am trying to have an
intelligent debate/conversation. I am always interested in hearing other
points of view and what better place than a forum such as this?
As for why I feel that a global government is the optimal choice the
answer is simple. As long as their are seperate nations then their will
always be a conflict of interest between nations and groups that pressure
for war. More powerful weapons of mass destruction are being developed and
as long as their are seperate nations their will be a possibility of war and
the temptation to use such weapons. In a hundred years we may have weapons
that make todays nukes look like toys. Such weapons should never have to be
used again.
IP:
Logged
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 11:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Magus is a GN representative in the U.S., I believe.
Are there promises issued here from GN for his tireless work?

I have already stated that I am in fact a rep for GN. I have also stated
how someone could find out who I am. As for promises to me for my hard work,
no. You fight for what you believe in and I do the same, thats all their is
to that.

IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 11:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
I cannpt trust a movement, where the founder is shrouded in mystery, who
comes from an elitest family.
Were Amadeus Rockefeller to denounce his wealth and family, and to come
forward with his views and background himself, I would be more prone to
listening to his ideas.
Since he has a group of mouthpieces who speak for him and since he
remains an enigma, I kind of get the creeps about him.
Is he too good to interface with the common man?

As I said if you wish to know more about him simply ask him. It would not
be right of me to post his biography on this board anymore that it would be
right of me to post yours. As for interfaceing with the "common" man he does
that on a regular basis. Just because he isn't a member of this board
doesn't mean he doesn't talk to people. Contact him and he will reply
honestly. As for his supposed "wealth" and the rest of the Rockefeller clan
you really would have to discuss that with him to understand what is really
going on with that.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 25, 2002 11:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I am not trying to win anyones heart or mind. I am trying to have an
intelligent debate/conversation. I am always interested in hearing other
points of view and what better place than a forum such as this?
As for why I feel that a global government is the optimal choice the
answer is simple. As long as their are seperate nations then their will
always be a conflict of interest between nations and groups that pressure
for war. More powerful weapons of mass destruction are being developed and
as long as their are seperate nations their will be a possibility of war and
the temptation to use such weapons. In a hundred years we may have weapons
that make todays nukes look like toys. Such weapons should never have to be
used again.
>>> One nation will remove the threat of wars? What happened during the
civil war? How about the unrest that brought about the Communist republic of
China? How about the fighting factions in the former yugoslavia? How about
today in Israel. Removing borders does not end the threat of war. Hate
causes war. Until a way to end hate is devised wars will still exist. Of
course the embedded brain chip may reduce us all to loyal robots thus ending
war. Oh what a joyous day that will be.

IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 12:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
As I said if you wish to know more about him simply ask him. It would not
be right of me to post his biography on this board anymore that it would be
right of me to post yours. As for interfaceing with the "common" man he does
that on a regular basis. Just because he isn't a member of this board
doesn't mean he doesn't talk to people. Contact him and he will reply
honestly. As for his supposed "wealth" and the rest of the Rockefeller clan
you really would have to discuss that with him to understand what is really
going on with that.
>>> there is a difference between devulging information, such as a
biography, of a person in the public eye, as opposed to that of a private
citizen. He should openly state his beliefs, credentials etc for all to see,
especially if he seeks the power that is spoken of.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 12:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I am not trying to win anyones heart or mind. I am trying to have an
intelligent debate/conversation. I am always interested in hearing other
points of view and what better place than a forum such as this?
As for why I feel that a global government is the optimal choice the
answer is simple. As long as their are seperate nations then their will
always be a conflict of interest between nations and groups that pressure
for war. More powerful weapons of mass destruction are being developed and
as long as their are seperate nations their will be a possibility of war and
the temptation to use such weapons. In a hundred years we may have weapons
that make todays nukes look like toys. Such weapons should never have to be
used again.
Ok,
so now we're getting some where.
You see both sides of this discussio have a fear.
We fear the wrath of a global nation. You fear the destruction of
individual nations.
The difference is that history is on our side. We know what can happen,
just by following the line of "history repeats itself."
You however fear the unwritten. That the world will end in nuclear war.
Your only rational for this is that bigger, "better" more deadly weapons are
being constructed and being constructed by more and more nations. No
advancement in weapons technology has led to the deaths of mass amount of
people (in general terms). However, plans of global domination have led to
the deaths of masses of people.
Don't you see, it's not the bullet, it's not the trigger that kills
people - it's the trigger finger.
I now understand your fear and this movement. Such fear has exposed the
evil that truly lies behind Global Nation.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 01:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Magus,
I believe that my problem with accepting a Global Government lies here.
1) America is a propserous nation. The rest of the world expects America
to dole out money to support the rest of the world.
As a small business man myself, who runs a small and profitable business
through hard work, and my own risk capital, I am not willing to give any
more in additional tax money on top of the money I already give my own
government. Correct me if I am wrong, but the proposed federation of Global
Nation has it's hand out for more money, that will be funneled to the rest
of the world's third world nation's peoples to elevate their position in
life. That's called welfare and social engineering.
>>>> Funds would not be used to raise their "position" in life as you put
it. They would be used to modernize various public works such as hospitals.
What I see is the leveling of the playing field for all, and the removal
of my comforts and finances to give comfort and finances to someone I don't
even know.
>>>> How would that remove your comforts and finances? Your property
would not be taken from you and if you have a job your finances would not be
affected so I don't see how that is a valid point. As for the "playing
field" it has never been level and never will be, thats life.
Now, I tithe and give to charaties, I support foreign causes through
charitable contributions.
How can you gurantee me that the proposed federation will not become a
bloated bureaurocrasy that is wasteful and irresponsible with the funds it
takes in in taxes from me? My own government does it, I am not sure the
federation wouldn't do the same.
>>>> There are no gurantee's in life. Vigilance will always be an
important part of everyone's civic duty just as it is now. Governments can
only become bloated bureaurocrasys if the people let them. Due to the high
standards required for an individual to be chosen as the Soveriegn that will
cut down on such actions. Of course there are various other safe guards to
prevent that in the constitution as well.
2) In America I am reasonably left alone to live my life. I am law
abiding. I have property. I have guns. I have a voice to speek out. I have
liberty. I have religious freedom.
Why would I not expect a federation body made up of europeans, thirtd
world nations, socialist and communist countries to somehow remove my
liberties, finances and property to benefit someone they deem fit to give it
to?
>>>> It would be unconstitutional
Why would I not expect the federation member nations who are increasingly
becoming more hateful and hostile towards Americans and our way of life to
rule with my best interests at heart?
>>>> Most people are not that hostile towords Americans. Except maybe in
some areas of the Middle East.
3)In America I have a Bill of Rights, A Constitution that still offers a
reasonable about of protections to me, the individual. I have a Government
that still is the best in the world, in spite all it's problems.
Why would I want to trade that in for a domestic government that would be
a puppet
for a Global Government?
4) Your constitution states that only the federation would coin money,
that all money would be equal in value in all states.
That tells me that your constitution would dictate that my American money
would be devalued in order to meet the value of foriegn currencies of third
world nations. This would wipe me out and destroy everything I have worked
for and will pass to my children. (I am sure the Rockefeller family would
somehow escape that fate.)
>>>> Your money would not be devalued. In Europe the various currencies
were not manipulated to make the 1 for 1 equal. They simply froze the
currency exchange rates and traded the appropriate amount of Euros in
exchange for whatever currency was being traded in depending on the value of
that currency. The same would be done in the Federation. The US currency
would not be devalued first. Although as a side note if the stock market
keeps going like this we wouldn't have to anyway.
Why would I want to see my hard work and savings destroyed so that sone
other country's people can attain prosperity at my and millians of
American's expense?
>>>> Once again that is an unfounded fear that I have already shown to be
false.
5) I will only swear an oath to the Son of God, Jesus Christ. I will only
swear allegiance to my flag and country. I will die for what I cherish, my
freedoms and liberty, and my fear is that my beliefs are in opposition to
Global Nation.
>>>> You would not be required to recite the oath. Only the poloticians
would. I don't see how your beliefs are in opposition to the beliefs of
Global Nation. The only statements that you have made that are contrary to
Global Nation is your preconceived notions of what a global government would
be like.
Global Nation appears to be founded by a Rockefeller, who is a total
enigma and a Mystery to me.
>>>> Then ask him questions. Thats not very hard.
I don't trust the Rockefellers, or any other one world, utopian,
globalist, nor do O favor any type of Global movement, as Scripture has
plainly pointed out, that one world currencies and globalism is insideous
and will be destructive to the world.
>>>> You are entitled to your opinion.
I believe Global Nation to be the camel's nose under the tent. That on
the surface, the movement appears to be benevolent and altruistic, but
underneath there is no room for people like myself who believe in God first,
individuality, hard work, and ethics.
>>>> Your seeing something that just isn't there. As to there being no
room for people like you, it was created by people with those same beliefs.
I see the proposed federation as a forced system upon me and others, and
that I will have no voice, and would be subjected to the will amd wims of a
Socialistic and tyranical system.
>>>> Its not a "forced system". The people get to choose if they want it
through the election process.
Magus,
I respect that you seek world peace and prosperity.
>>>> Thank you
A rule of economics is this. For one person to be wealthy, another must
not be. For everyone to have a decent standard of living would only serve to
lower the standards of living of those judged to be too wealthy or
prosperous. That is a mark of communism. Punish the inovative and hard
workers to improve the lot of those who are only marginal in their work
ethic and inovation.
The Federation would serve only to control people, so that a few elites
would have the comforts and prestige upon the backs of the masses. Again, a
communistic system dressed up as some benevolent and altruistic system.
>>>> The Federation is nothing like Communism
The Federation would do better to channel it's resourses into propagating
democracy, and liberty worldwide. So that all peoples could realize their
full potential, with less regulating and intrusive government, rather than a
whole new encompasing government added to the mix.
>>>> A good statement but you would still have war
I am afraid that the proposed federation seeks to make things better for
some, by making all people total equals in all ways, in religion, finances,
property, liberties, and thought, even if under coersion and force.
>>>> I don't even see how you think that. Please elaborate.
I am and American. I respect your freedom to air your ideas, and would
like to continue to discuss this with you as time permits.
>>>> The feeling is mutual
However, I think that if the Federation came to fruition, that myself and
others would be presecuted and either executed or exiled for our refusal to
swear affirmation or allegiance to the proposed federation. For being
individuals rather then being part of the collective.
>>>> Only the elected reps in government would need to say an oath. You
could only be exiled if you commited a crime. You could never be executed
since the Federation doesn't believe in the death penalty.
What say you, my friend?
>>>> I understand your fears but I do not think they are valid in regards
to this particular institution.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 01:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
>>> there is a difference between devulging information, such as a
biography, of a person in the public eye, as opposed to that of a private
citizen. He should openly state his beliefs, credentials etc for all to see,
especially if he seeks the power that is spoken of.
If you want to know anything about him then ask him. He is not seeking
any power for himself.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 02:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Ok,
so now we're getting some where.
You see both sides of this discussio have a fear.
We fear the wrath of a global nation. You fear the destruction of
individual nations.
The difference is that history is on our side. We know what can happen,
just by following the line of "history repeats itself."
You however fear the unwritten. That the world will end in nuclear war.
Your only rational for this is that bigger, "better" more deadly weapons are
being constructed and being constructed by more and more nations. No
advancement in weapons technology has led to the deaths of mass amount of
people (in general terms). However, plans of global domination have led to
the deaths of masses of people.
Don't you see, it's not the bullet, it's not the trigger that kills
people - it's the trigger finger.
I now understand your fear and this movement. Such fear has exposed the
evil that truly lies behind Global Nation.
History does indeed repeat itself. And as long as their are seperate
nations there will continue to be war. History has shown that. It has also
shown that the war continue to be more destructive. And what do you no
device of war has caused the deaths of a large amount of people. Haven't you
heard of the A-Bomb? That one device killed quite a few people. The nukes we
have now a days makes that bomb look like a firework. If you call wanting to
end war, end slavery, and end famine evil then I think you need to go find
look it up because you got the meaning very wrong.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 02:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
History does indeed repeat itself. And as long as their are seperate
nations there will continue to be war. History has shown that. It has also
shown that the war continue to be more destructive. And what do you no
device of war has caused the deaths of a large amount of people. Haven't you
heard of the A-Bomb? That one device killed quite a few people. The nukes we
have now a days makes that bomb look like a firework. If you call wanting to
end war, end slavery, and end famine evil then I think you need to go find
look it up because you got the meaning very wrong.
You're not thinking on the level that I am thinking. Go back and read
what I wrote again.
Of course the A-Bomb killed many people. But it also saved many more
lives in the long run.
I was speaking on general terms of the advancement of weapons not leading
to the destruction of the world. Sure, yes, on a specific level weapons kill
many, many people. The more advanced weapons get, the more they can destroy
more people at once. But no weapon has brought about the destruction of the
planet. People bring about the destruction of the planet.
You totally missed the concept. This leads me to believe that you have
not totally thought about what Global Nation means and what it will lead to
if it becomes a reality.
Your fears are misplaced.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 02:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
You're not thinking on the level that I am thinking. Go back and read
what I wrote again.
Of course the A-Bomb killed many people. But it also saved many more
lives in the long run.
I was speaking on general terms of the advancement of weapons not leading
to the destruction of the world. Sure, yes, on a specific level weapons kill
many, many people. The more advanced weapons get, the more they can destroy
more people at once. But no weapon has brought about the destruction of the
planet. People bring about the destruction of the planet.
You totally missed the concept. This leads me to believe that you have
not totally thought about what Global Nation means and what it will lead to
if it becomes a reality.
Your fears are misplaced.
Yes those seeking global domination has resulted in millions of deaths,
because they were conqouring other nations trying to force their rule on
people. That is not our way. If people want what we offer then they can
except it. If they don't want it then they don't have to elect our people.
There is a huge difference. One way is force. Our way is by choice.
Weapons of mass destruction would not be created unless someone was
willing to use them. Yes people can destroy the planet because they are
afraid. Afraid another nation will take their land, property, etc. Because
of this fear people have created really nasty weapons to easily kill lots of
people at one time.
The people in government have no problem using these weapons if they
think they have to. As long as there are seperate nations there will be war
after war and they will continue to be more and more destructive.
That is not a misplaced fear that is fact. I have history on my side on
that point. You feel my fears are misplaced and I feel your fears are
misplaced. It seems we will simply have to agree to disagree since neither
one of us will ever win that discussion. I will keep discussing it with you
if you would like though.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 26, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 02:38 AM
I think you're still missing my point. Yes we'll have to agree to
disagree.
My point is that I fear government, I don't fear weapons.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 02:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
I think you're still missing my point. Yes we'll have to agree to
disagree.
My point is that I fear government, I don't fear weapons.
You fear governments. I fear governments that fear other governments.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 02:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
You fear governments. I fear governments that fear other governments.
So you propose that there be one super government uniting many
governments - and they will not harm the minority of the other governments
(not in the federation), not in any way at all, never?
I don't see that possible.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 02:54 AM
And if there's one thing we've learned in America, the solution is never
more government.

IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 02:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
So you propose that there be one super government uniting many
governments - and they will not harm the minority of the other governments
(not in the federation), not in any way at all, never?
I don't see that possible.
Unless one of the seperate governments attacked the Federation then why
would they be harmed? Wouldn't make any sense.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 03:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Unless one of the seperate governments attacked the Federation then why
would they be harmed? Wouldn't make any sense.
Perhaps the wrong people get elected, the system gets screwed up, some
loonie takes over and attacks the miniority of independent nations. (There
we go from now on in this conversation the two sides will be reffred to as
such, the Federation and the Minority of Independent Nations or MIN for
short
)
The point is that people mess things up. People can also solve things.
One person can mess up a lot of things. (Hitler)
One person can also solve a lot of problems.
The proposed Global Nation is the wrong solution. As long as there are
people you will not end the problems of people. As long as there's nature
you will not end the problems of nature. Another form of government will not
end the problems involved in government.
We can go back and forth on this forever.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 03:17 AM
Perhaps a MIN nation contains a resource that the Federation needs more
of and a MIN refuses to trade with the Federation?
What happens then?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 03:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Perhaps a MIN nation contains a resource that the Federation needs more
of and a MIN refuses to trade with the Federation?
What happens then?
By the time GN has enough support in the various governments to actually
form the Federation resources will not be a problem. The Federation is not
going to come into existence just because three or four nations support the
idea. It will occur once a large majority of the nations support it.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 03:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
By the time GN has enough support in the various governments to actually
form the Federation resources will not be a problem. The Federation is not
going to come into existence just because three or four nations support the
idea. It will occur once a large majority of the nations support it.
Ok so what happens on the opposite then?
What if a MIN nation is in need of assistance? Would GN then jump in a
provide them with assistance - or would they force that country into the GN
in order to recieve the assistance?
The United States does this today without geeting anything back most of
the time. We encourage countries that we help out to adopt our system of
government, but we do not force them.
Would it be the same way with GN? Is there any gurantee of this to the
other nations that refuse to join?
If there isn't, then you are in fact making nations join by force.
What if, what if, what if...
There are too many variables involeved that are beyond human control.
Global Nation is a faliure in that the only way it could suceed is that
someone or some country would be destroyed, maybe not immediately, but it
would eventually happen. That is no success to me, that is nothing but
faliure.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 03:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Perhaps the wrong people get elected, the system gets screwed up, some
loonie takes over and attacks the miniority of independent nations. (There
we go from now on in this conversation the two sides will be reffred to as
such, the Federation and the Minority of Independent Nations or MIN for
short
)
The point is that people mess things up. People can also solve things.
One person can mess up a lot of things. (Hitler)
One person can also solve a lot of problems.
The proposed Global Nation is the wrong solution. As long as there are
people you will not end the problems of people. As long as there's nature
you will not end the problems of nature. Another form of government will not
end the problems involved in government.
We can go back and forth on this forever.
At this rate we probably will go back and forth forever.
Of
course I would like to think that we both have valid points even though we
disagree.

IP:
Logged
Stinko the Pinko
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 10:47 AM
The Global Nation Theme
Peace!
[This message has been edited by Stinko the Pinko (edited July 26,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Stinko the Pinko
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 11:01 AM
A Celebrity Offers an Opinion on Global Nation
Peace!
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 26, 2002 12:13 PM
Just like that ol UN a?
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
By the time GN has enough support in the various governments to actually
form the Federation resources will not be a problem. The Federation is not
going to come into existence just because three or four nations support the
idea. It will occur once a large majority of the nations support it.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 26, 2002 12:42 PM
Also, what happens to a nation when it wants to leave the federtion?
Would it be allowed to do so freely, without harm?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 26, 2002 01:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Also, what happens to a nation when it wants to leave the federtion?
Would it be allowed to do so freely, without harm?
Yes. Unlike in the USA if a state in the Federation decided they would
rather not participate then they would be allowed to leave without
harrasment.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 26, 2002 04:06 PM
Of Course, just how we can leave the UN, Gatt and NAFTA....
Well you can see how well that works.
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Also, what happens to a nation when it wants to leave the federtion?
Would it be allowed to do so freely, without harm?
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 26, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 27, 2002 01:17 AM
Ok, as I have read more about this, it seems to make more sense in my
original belief about it. That is, if any one group wishes to control all of
the nations in one govt, then there is that chance of a totalitarian evil
behind it.
Now, as all those who have started in the past along the same lines to
gain control of the world or that as they knew it all met with violent ends.
The fact of the matter is, that when there are people involved, there is
no certainty. Magus and his kind can give no garuntees that there system
would be so willing to let a member nation out if they so decided, and it is
absurd that would say so. He says that they would not use force or coersion
to gain member states, but with a govt that is all encompasing they would
naturally grow greedy and wish for more states.
What if there were a non member nation that held resources that the GN
wanted and they would not deal? Well as Magus says there would be no wars
because joing all people under one banner would resolve that. Well that too
is just plain stupid to think. People are people and no flag or one world
govt is going to stop the fact that there will be conflict, and inevidibly
war. Or is it because they will share one govt that it will not be a war,
what do we call it then, a neighborhood dispute?

The whole concept of a one world government is as scary as it gets. I for
one, do not want the Blue hats of the UN on my home soil telling me what I
can and cannot do. For you to try and tell us that with the GN there would
still be our government in place is again another of the GN lies to try and
attain global domination. There are those sheeple out there that will take
you and yours at their word that everything will be better under that kind
of system, but in my book, the GN would indeed be the beginning of the end
of the world, while the GN would be happily collecting the treasures and
wealth of the world for themselves, those elitists that would be in the
driver seat of such a ludicrous >sp?< contraption.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 02:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Also, what happens to a nation when it wants to leave the federtion?
Would it be allowed to do so freely, without harm?
>>>> hmmm that sounds familiar. Oh yeah didn't the states agree to that
when ratifying the Constitution? Then why did the Civil War occur? I do not
believe for a minute those who profess to be looking out for my best
interest.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 02:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nascarfan:
Now, as all those who have started in the past along the same lines to
gain control of the world or that as they knew it all met with violent ends.
>sp?< contraption.
You forgot to mention that all of those people used violent means. We
want peace not war. Seeking war would completely contradict the reason for
GN's creation. Those who seek power will use violence, secrecy, and
manipulation. GN is out in the open and not out to force anyone to do
anything. We will let the people decide as it should be.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 03:49 AM
I thought you folks would like to read an e-mail I received from Amadeus
regarding our discussions. Enjoy!

Dear Joseph
I think the debates on Newsmax are interesting. However these people are
very focused on negative issues. I think all these people who are debating
with you have good hearts and the right motives - but many are set in their
ways of thinking, many are programmed from birth upward to believe that
their world and the people who try their best to manage it are evil or
whatever. And alot of them, not the ones commentating, the ones who read all
the arguments are the ones we need to enlighten. Americans, Australians, the
British and other 'civilized' nations are sitting in a comfortzone and are I
believe a little out-of-touch with the terrible life that the other 3/4 of
our planet suffer everyday. I have travelled the world on a few occasions
and know outside our own borders that this planet can be shocking, cold and
merciless place. These suffering ones are the ones that need GN most of all
and these ones are hopefully reading your posts. If you can try and bring
some focus on the guaranteed Basic Human Rights ( CHAPTER VIII - GENERAL
PROVISIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION 104) that everyone will share under the
federation this may be a bigger boost to peoples hopes that you can imagine.
You never know some 15 year old school girl in the Congo, Afghanistan,
Palestine, China or wherever an oppressive system may reign, may have
managed to gain access to her school internet service may be desperately
seeking salvation from her war-torn or savaged lifestyle. GN is that beckon
of hope and light for her. Let her see that light and what hope it promises.
She is our sister, perhaps an extremely distance one by many thousand
generations, but she is still our sister. She is part of our human family
and she deserves a better life. Lets help her and the millions of others
like her. Give them hope. Honor them and GN will be honored.
Thank you and keep up the good work.
Respectfully Yours
Amadeus Rockefeller
Presiding Officer for Global Nation
IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 27, 2002 04:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I thought you folks would like to read an e-mail I received from Amadeus
regarding our discussions. Enjoy!

Dear Joseph
I think the debates on Newsmax are interesting. However these people are
very focused on negative issues. I think all these people who are debating
with you have good hearts and the right motives - but many are set in their
ways of thinking, many are programmed from birth upward to believe that
their world and the people who try their best to manage it are evil or
whatever. And alot of them, not the ones commentating, the ones who read all
the arguments are the ones we need to enlighten. Americans, Australians, the
British and other 'civilized' nations are sitting in a comfortzone and are I
believe a little out-of-touch with the terrible life that the other 3/4 of
our planet suffer everyday. I have travelled the world on a few occasions
and know outside our own borders that this planet can be shocking, cold and
merciless place. These suffering ones are the ones that need GN most of all
and these ones are hopefully reading your posts. If you can try and bring
some focus on the guaranteed Basic Human Rights ( CHAPTER VIII - GENERAL
PROVISIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION 104) that everyone will share under the
federation this may be a bigger boost to peoples hopes that you can imagine.
You never know some 15 year old school girl in the Congo, Afghanistan,
Palestine, China or wherever an oppressive system may reign, may have
managed to gain access to her school internet service may be desperately
seeking salvation from her war-torn or savaged lifestyle. GN is that beckon
of hope and light for her. Let her see that light and what hope it promises.
She is our sister, perhaps an extremely distance one by many thousand
generations, but she is still our sister. She is part of our human family
and she deserves a better life. Lets help her and the millions of others
like her. Give them hope. Honor them and GN will be honored.
Thank you and keep up the good work.
Respectfully Yours
Amadeus Rockefeller
Presiding Officer for Global Nation
Thats very interesting. I could go and type something and sign it the
same way or as President Bush. Maybe there is something a little more
credible you could offer.

IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 27, 2002 04:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
You forgot to mention that all of those people used violent means. We
want peace not war. Seeking war would completely contradict the reason for
GN's creation. Those who seek power will use violence, secrecy, and
manipulation. GN is out in the open and not out to force anyone to do
anything. We will let the people decide as it should be.
Thats interesting as well. Out of all of the comments I made, you choose
one small portion to comment on. The only thing that you and your GN cohorts
have showed me is that you are the same as any other group that has wanted
to control the world under their own elitist government. You want control,
and thats that.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 04:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nascarfan:
Thats very interesting. I could go and type something and sign it the
same way or as President Bush. Maybe there is something a little more
credible you could offer.

If you doubt the legitimacy that much why don't you e-mail Amadeus
yourself to check and see if it's real.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 04:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nascarfan:
Thats interesting as well. Out of all of the comments I made, you choose
one small portion to comment on. The only thing that you and your GN cohorts
have showed me is that you are the same as any other group that has wanted
to control the world under their own elitist government. You want control,
and thats that.
Why do you even want to discuss this with me? You obviously think
everything I say is a lie so whats the point?
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 27, 2002 12:36 PM
Mr. Magus appears to be a Mr. Joseph Stair. Just check above his post to
email him.

IP:
Logged
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 27, 2002 12:42 PM
As for Mr. Rockefeller, I find it hard to believe a man with such
ambitions would have the time to oversee this debate.
Secondly, I see the man means well, as do you Magus. The problem is that
you and Mr. Rockefeller have failed to address our concerns with any
gurantees of the prevention of terrible happening with the implementation of
Global Nation.
You are partially right sir, we do live in a comfort zone. However, I beg
to differ, that zone is now gone. America has been attacked by outside
forces on our own soil due to the forces of hate and jealousy. I would
rather work on own problems, before worrying about the rest of the world -
for the rest of the world tends to hate us, even though we have given our
fair share, our fair share in time, money, understanding and yes, blood.
I am not about to sacrafice my own blood or my childrens blood in some
crazy unrealistic plan to unite the world forever. I will however sacrafice
those things for America.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 01:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Mr. Magus appears to be a Mr. Joseph Stair. Just check above his post to
email him.

You would be correct.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 02:01 PM
You may use your free time as you wish. Amadeus has that same right. If
he wishs to occasionally read some of our debate that is his right. And if
you have any doubts as to whether or not the posted letter is authentic than
simply ask Nascarfan. Nascarfan has already been given proof.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 27, 2002 03:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I thought you folks would like to read an e-mail I received from Amadeus
regarding our discussions. Enjoy!

Dear Joseph
I think the debates on Newsmax are interesting. However these people are
very focused on negative issues. I think all these people who are debating
with you have good hearts and the right motives - but many are set in their
ways of thinking, many are programmed from birth upward to believe that
their world and the people who try their best to manage it are evil or
whatever. And alot of them, not the ones commentating, the ones who read all
the arguments are the ones we need to enlighten. Americans, Australians, the
British and other 'civilized' nations are sitting in a comfortzone and are I
believe a little out-of-touch with the terrible life that the other 3/4 of
our planet suffer everyday. I have travelled the world on a few occasions
and know outside our own borders that this planet can be shocking, cold and
merciless place. These suffering ones are the ones that need GN most of all
and these ones are hopefully reading your posts. If you can try and bring
some focus on the guaranteed Basic Human Rights ( CHAPTER VIII - GENERAL
PROVISIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION 104) that everyone will share under the
federation this may be a bigger boost to peoples hopes that you can imagine.
You never know some 15 year old school girl in the Congo, Afghanistan,
Palestine, China or wherever an oppressive system may reign, may have
managed to gain access to her school internet service may be desperately
seeking salvation from her war-torn or savaged lifestyle. GN is that beckon
of hope and light for her. Let her see that light and what hope it promises.
She is our sister, perhaps an extremely distance one by many thousand
generations, but she is still our sister. She is part of our human family
and she deserves a better life. Lets help her and the millions of others
like her. Give them hope. Honor them and GN will be honored.
Thank you and keep up the good work.
Respectfully Yours
Amadeus Rockefeller
Presiding Officer for Global Nation
>>> You continuously referr to this being a benevolent movement with
leaders who do not crave power. For the moment lets take what you say at
face value, what happens when someone of evil means gains power? This has
always occurred in EVERY culture, even our own. Safeguards you put in place
may work for some time but eventually even they fail as is being witnessed
today in the US. No government is completely void of possible evil. As our
founders said, " government is inherently evil". The only difference will be
that rather then being able to escape to another country I will be a slave
to this one world government.
IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 27, 2002 10:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Why do you even want to discuss this with me? You obviously think
everything I say is a lie so whats the point?
I do not believe that everything you say is a lie. The fact as I see it
tho, is that you have not addressed the questions nor the scenarios that I
have brought up nor that other posters have. You have chosen a small portion
to address, which was miniscule in the post to begin with. I have not seen
where there are any actual garuntees of what you propose other than, what I
see as propganda.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 28, 2002 01:17 PM
quote:
Originally written to Magus from Amadeus Rockefeller:
but she is still our sister. She is part of our human family and she
deserves a better life. Lets help her and the millions of others like her.
Give them hope.
Yes, let's give her hope. Let's topple her corrupt government and
encourage the formation of a Constitutional Republic. Give her people the
education and means to accomplish this themselves. When the Republic is set
up, let's guide them through their struggle to build a free market economy.
You see, my fear is that an organization such as GN would take what I
have to distrubute to her country -to increase their comfort levels while
reducing my comfort level that I broke my back to earn through hard work.
I do not see Amadeus Rockefeller setting the example for "her" by
donating his fortune and comforts, which he inherited from filthy oil money
to ease her burdon.
GN seeks to install a worldwide government to controll all, and to
socially engineer the global economy.
There is only so much wealth in this world. IF GN is serious, then let GN
remove the wealth of the rich elitest families like the Rockefeller's
fortune to lessen the burdon of others, before GN comes after mine.
Not every man was meant to be comfortable, or prosperous, as sad as this
may sound.
The Sovie Union attempted this, along with China under their forms of
"fair & just" forms of government called Communism.
As altruistic and benevolent as the motives of GN may sound, someone must
loose out for others to gain.
GN should channel it's energies into creating a revolution in 3rd world
nations to form Constitutional Republics, in order for countries to
determine their own destiny, rather than relying on GN to determine the
destiny of those nations.
Were GN to to that, I would whole heartedly support the GN efforts.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 28, 2002 07:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Yes, let's give her hope. Let's topple her corrupt government and
encourage the formation of a Constitutional Republic. Give her people the
education and means to accomplish this themselves. When the Republic is set
up, let's guide them through their struggle to build a free market economy.
>>> Toppling her government is a great idea but one they must initiate.
It is not our place top police the world and set up what we deem to be
right. This makes us no better then GN.
You see, my fear is that an organization such as GN would take what I
have to distrubute to her country -to increase their comfort levels while
reducing my comfort level that I broke my back to earn through hard work.
I do not see Amadeus Rockefeller setting the example for "her" by
donating his fortune and comforts, which he inherited from filthy oil money
to ease her burdon.
>>>> Filthy oil money? Is this to say that there are acceptable and
unacceptable business practices to partake in? I do believe he should put
forth his money if it is his idea, but his money was earned/ inherited
legally and just.
GN seeks to install a worldwide government to controll all, and to socially
engineer the global economy.
There is only so much wealth in this world. IF GN is serious, then let GN
remove the wealth of the rich elitest families like the Rockefeller's
fortune to lessen the burdon of others, before GN comes after mine.
The economy is not a zero sum game. If I gain wealth this does not mean
another must lose wealth.
Not every man was meant to be comfortable, or prosperous, as sad as this
may sound.
>>> I agree no matter what is doen there will always be poor and rich.
Even if a government gave all its people $1 mill there would still be poor
and rich. To a certain extent it is relative. ( the poor in America are poor
only by our standards)
The Sovie Union attempted this, along with China under their forms of "fair
& just" forms of government called Communism.
>>> I question if that was their goal or just a convient cover for
tyranny.
As altruistic and benevolent as the motives of GN may sound, someone must
loose out for others to gain.
>>> Many disastrous things have been done in the name of benevolency.
Welfare sounds benevolent but it is the taking from one citizen to benefit
another. If I did this I would be a criminal, when govt does this it is
called compassion.
GN should channel it's energies into creating a revolution in 3rd world
nations to form Constitutional Republics, in order for countries to
determine their own destiny, rather than relying on GN to determine the
destiny of those nations.
>>> Again I think this is up to the people of those respective nations.
Should they decide to overthrow their govts and install a republic I would
be completely behind GN's aiding their struggles.
Were GN to to that, I would whole heartedly support the GN efforts.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 29, 2002 01:54 PM
I have been following this debate for some time. At first I was very
skeptical of this GN proposal. However it does seem really the only solution
to pull this crumbling world system together. I dont see anyone else in the
world or here trying to come up with a better solution. Everyone seems to be
able to throw their 2 cents of negativity in - but sadly many are lacking in
trying to help make this system better or putting themselves outthere in the
world and trying to steer us all in a better direction. Keep up the debate
Magus. I want to hear more about GN to see if I will vote for you.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 29, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 29, 2002 03:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
I have been following this debate for some time. At first I was very
skeptical of this GN proposal. However it does seem really the only solution
to pull this crumbling world system together. I dont see anyone else in the
world or here trying to come up with a better solution. Everyone seems to be
able to throw their 2 cents of negativity in - but sadly many are lacking in
trying to help make this system better or putting themselves outthere in the
world and trying to steer us all in a better direction. Keep up the debate
Magus. I want to hear more about GN to see if I will vote for you.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 29, 2002).]
What the hell are you talking about?
I'm the most optimistic person you'll ever meet. Anyone that fights the
battle of globalism has to be optimistic. The cards are stacked against us.
There's been one good solution tossed on the table in this debate many
times. Let's educate the rest of the world to be represenative republics.
None of you supporters of GN have said anything negative about that.
Don't you think there's something wrong with a such a program as GN is
has brought up so many negative questions?
You're being naive to ignore these legitimate questions and just thinking
GN has the best solution, and those of us questioning it live in a world of
negativity.
Far from the truth once you remove the wool from your eyes.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 29, 2002 07:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
What the hell are you talking about?
I'm the most optimistic person you'll ever meet. Anyone that fights the
battle of globalism has to be optimistic. The cards are stacked against us.
>>>> I agree it is a difficult path to tread.
There's been one good solution tossed on the table in this debate many
times. Let's educate the rest of the world to be represenative republics.
>>>> Discussing an alternate form of government with them is one thing.
Advocating a revolution is something completely different. Is it our place
to tell the peoples of the world which governments may stand and which may
fall? That should be each respective people's choice.
None of you supporters of GN have said anything negative about that.
>>>> There would still be conflicts over resources, land, and other petty
desires without a more concreate form of cooperation between the
governments.
Don't you think there's something wrong with a such a program as GN is
has brought up so many negative questions?
>>>> Any plan should be thouroughly scrutinized to ensure all bases have
been covered. I would worry more about any plan that no one scrutinizes
because that will be the plan that will do the damage.
You're being naive to ignore these legitimate questions and just thinking
GN has the best solution, and those of us questioning it live in a world of
negativity.
>>>> And you are letting your fear blind you to the possibility that GN
could really be a good thing for our world and instead simply assuming it is
the worst.
Far from the truth once you remove the wool from your eyes
>>>> Perhaps you should take your own advice.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 29, 2002 07:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I'm two steps ahead of you and knew you'd say something like that.
As I said, and others have said:
Give us a good reason why we should throw all our eggs in one basket and
go along with something like GN, instead of focusing on educating nations on
how to live a life of true freedom?
Let us know, inquiring minds want to know. Or will you duck this question
for about the 5th time on this thread? Your reply did not really answer our
questions.
You people sound very arrogant to me. We're listening, but you're failing
to answer our legitimate questions, after time and time again you've said
you'd address them.
Sounds like misinformation to me.
[This message has been edited by Administrator2 (edited July 29, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 29, 2002 07:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
I'm two steps ahead of you and knew you'd say something like that.
As I said, and others have said:
Give us a good reason why we should throw all our eggs in one basket and
go along with something like GN, instead of focusing on educating nations on
how to live a life of true freedom?
Let us know, inquiring minds want to know. Or will you duck this question
for about the 5th time on this thread? Your reply did not really answer our
questions.
You people sound very arrogant to me. We're listening, but you're failing
to answer our legitimate questions, after time and time again you've said
you'd address them.
Sounds like misinformation to me.
[This message has been edited by Administrator2 (edited July 29, 2002).]
I have answered nearly every question that was asked. If I missed one or
two I appologise but their were a lot of questions asked. As for why people
should support GN I have answered that question a number of times, and if
you failed to grasp the answer every time that is not my fault. As for
arrogance I fail to see where you came up with that. I have been more than
willing to have a rational conversation on GN. Some of the comments I have
recieved however were of the "holier than thou" mentality and hardly open
minded. That smacks of arrogence to me. If I am mistaken then let me know.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 29, 2002 07:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I have answered nearly every question that was asked. If I missed one or
two I appologise but their were a lot of questions asked. As for why people
should support GN I have answered that question a number of times, and if
you failed to grasp the answer every time that is not my fault. As for
arrogance I fail to see where you came up with that. I have been more than
willing to have a rational conversation on GN. Some of the comments I have
recieved however were of the "holier than thou" mentality and hardly open
minded. That smacks of arrogence to me. If I am mistaken then let me know.
I see you have been schooled in the ways of spin.

Holier than thou? What is more holier than thou than claiming you have
the solution to uniting all/most of the people of the Earth in a civilized
manner?
That seems holier than thou to me. That smacks of holier than thou to me.
If I am mistaken then let me know.

IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 29, 2002 11:37 PM
Hi Magus
I'd like to know what the GN stand is on job creation, general
employment. I was reading the constitution in the section that speaks about
building a 'grand complex' called a 'Citadel' in every GN region to house
the governing body and general administration. I would think that this grand
Citadel would be something quite spectacular in size and architectural
beauty and its supporting city and infrastructure would require massive work
forces, construction, engineering, roadwork's, etc. If one Citadel is to be
built within every ten year period in every Region - well my calculations
would be over 100 years alone of non-stop work. That would require a massive
workforce and job creation and the requirement of skills from people all
over the planet. Am I right in presuming this?
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 29, 2002).]
IP:
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Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 29, 2002 11:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
I see you have been schooled in the ways of spin.

Holier than thou? What is more holier than thou than claiming you have
the solution to uniting all/most of the people of the Earth in a civilized
manner?
That seems holier than thou to me. That smacks of holier than thou to me.
If I am mistaken then let me know.

I have been told that I am a liar, arrogant, I spread misinformation,
dodge questions, that I am a mouthpiece for GN with no thoughts of my own,
etc. While the whole time a few of you claim your positions are absolutely
correct while my path is the path of fools. That is a Holier than Thou
attitude. Others have been more reasonable. They may disagree with me but
they were still willing to listen to my point, consider it, and still
managed not to make blind accusations of my character. It is not the
disagreement I mind. It is the reasoning behind it.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 29, 2002 11:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
I have been told that I am a liar, arrogant, I spread misinformation,
dodge questions, that I am a mouthpiece for GN with no thoughts of my own,
etc. While the whole time a few of you claim your positions are absolutely
correct while my path is the path of fools. That is a Holier than Thou
attitude. Others have been more reasonable. They may disagree with me but
they were still willing to listen to my point, consider it, and still
managed not to make blind accusations of my character. It is not the
disagreement I mind. It is the reasoning behind it.
Fair enough, but if the USA ever joins this GN, then don't expect to come
knocking on my doorstep and recieve a handshake when you come to remove me
from my property because I refuse to live by GN rule.

IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 12:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Fair enough, but if the USA ever joins this GN, then don't expect to come
knocking on my doorstep and recieve a handshake when you come to remove me
from my property because I refuse to live by GN rule.

Unless you decide to become a career criminal then I don't see why you
would ever be removed from your home. Are you planning on becoming a career
criminal?

IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 12:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Hi Magus
I'd like to know what the GN stand is on job creation, general
employment. I was reading the constitution in the section that speaks about
building a 'grand complex' called a 'Citadel' in every GN region to house
the governing body and general administration. I would think that this grand
Citadel would be something quite spectacular in size and architectural
beauty and its supporting city and infrastructure would require massive work
forces, construction, engineering, roadwork's, etc. If one Citadel is to be
built within every ten year period in every Region - well my calculations
would be over 100 years alone of non-stop work. That would require a massive
workforce and job creation and the requirement of skills from people all
over the planet. Am I right in presuming this?
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 29, 2002).]
Ahh.. You have an eye for detail. Yes you are correct. It will be an
extrordinary undertaking. That area of the work force won't be worrying
about a job for quite some time I would think.

IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 12:29 AM
Why is the building that houses the government body called a citadel?
This brings forth the image of a fortress. A fortress is something built
for defense. What is this citadel defending against?
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 12:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Unless you decide to become a career criminal then I don't see why you
would ever be removed from your home. Are you planning on becoming a career
criminal?

Nope, I will refuse to live under the rule of the GN. I'm an American, I
was born as one, raised as one and always will be one, I will die one. I am
not GN'er or whatever you would call yourself.
I am not a criminal, nor will I ever be one. But I fear that under GN
rule, the things I stand for may one day be considered a criminal offense.
It's all in perception isn't it now?
The
way I live my life here would probably be criminal lets say in some place
like Iraq, in which GN so proudly displays the Iraqi flag on the site.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 12:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Ahh.. You have an eye for detail. Yes you are correct. It will be an
extrordinary undertaking. That area of the work force won't be worrying
about a job for quite some time I would think.

Perhaps such a workforce will not be paid workers, rather slaves of
people like me who refuse to live under GN rule.
Sounds like the building of the pyramids to me, or worse yet, the Tower
of Babel.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 12:50 AM
The Citadel will be the building that houses the governing body, nothing
more.
If the things you stand for are twisting words, imagining make believe
horrors, and misperception than yes some may look down upon your actions.
You act as if you are such a perceptive person, but you can't even tell the
difference between the flag of Iraq and the flag of Iran. The things
labeled!
Slavery would be illegal in GN. This is what I was talking about when I
said you're making things up. What kind of discussion can we have if you
start dreaming up imaginery problems. You have to be able to do better than
that.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
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Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 01:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
The Citadel will be the building that houses the governing body, nothing
more.
If the things you stand for are twisting words, imagining make believe
horrors, and misperception than yes some may look down upon your actions.
You act as if you are such a perceptive person, but you can't even tell the
difference between the flag of Iraq and the flag of Iran. The things
labeled!
Slavery would be illegal in GN. This is what I was talking about when I
said you're making things up. What kind of discussion can we have if you
start dreaming up imaginery problems. You have to be able to do better than
that.
[This message has been edited by Magus (edited July 30, 2002).]
Iraq, Iran, I don't really care. It's been a few days since I looked at
the site. They both hate America and Americans.
The thing you fail to understand in everything I say is that I'm speaking
of GN over time, not always of it's beginnings.
Perhaps what I and others warn of will never happen with GN. Perhaps it
will happen, perhaps these terrors will happen in 2 years after the start of
GN, perhaps 10 years, perhaps 100, perhaps 1,000, maybe longer.
What we are saying is that the gamble is not worth it. You have failed to
show us that the payoff of this gamble is worth it.
Perhaps you see that as selfish? I do not, I see that as not giving up
what I already have - freedom. The only thing better would be more of it.
There is no way that GN could grant me more freedom than what I enjoy
now. There is no incentive. I wish to stay under American rule and not GN
rule.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 01:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Iraq, Iran, I don't really care. It's been a few days since I looked at
the site. They both hate America and Americans.
The majority of Iraq and Iranians dont hate America. They hate their own
administations more. A few idiots that the press glorifies is not
represenative of whole nations views
The thing you fail to understand in everything I say is that I'm speaking
of GN over time, not always of it's beginnings.
Perhaps what I and others warn of will never happen with GN. Perhaps it will
happen, perhaps these terrors will happen in 2 years after the start of GN,
perhaps 10 years, perhaps 100, perhaps 1,000, maybe longer.
What we are saying is that the gamble is not worth it. You have failed to
show us that the payoff of this gamble is worth it.
So why does the gamble matter to you? Like you are going to be here in
100 or 1000 years time. This argument is just plain nonsense.
Perhaps you see that as selfish? I do not, I see that as not giving up
what I already have - freedom. The only thing better would be more of it.
Yeah, sure lets have more and more freedom. What happens when people have
too much freedom. Answer: Anarchy! No thanks.
There is no way that GN could grant me more freedom than what I enjoy
now. There is no incentive. I wish to stay under American rule and not GN
rule.
Well I can't see the rational for this argument either. Under this GN you
are free to leave the USA and go and live or work somewhere else. Can you
freely leave your borders now and do this? I dont think so! Are the states
really that free? No. And they way its heading with homeland security its
gonna get worse. They are cracking down on Americans freedom now so Hurry up
GN and get it together - we need saving from the Bush tyranny and its like
minded kings.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
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nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:04 AM
A few things that have become somewhat more appearent or transparent with
the entire GN notion is that, 1) the elitist class will be those dictating
what is and what is not legal right and proper; 2) the fact that they will
build these Citadels in such grand and spectacular fashions shows that it
will be to serve or reflect the elitist ruling class; and 3) I have yet to
have been told what garuntees there are that there will not be a
totalitarian system that serves the elitist class and further takes away
from those who are not within that class.
It would seem also that the one who has gotten to a point of the tantrums
my daughter throws is Magus. It would seem that he chooses not to answer our
questions in a straight forward fashion, but to put the GN party line on it
and cloud the issue further. I guess if you can't dazzle us with truth, then
attempt to baffle us with BS.
My questions are quite simple.
What garuntess are there for us that it will not be an evil totalitarian
system?
What benefit to nations such as the USA is to be part of this GN?
There are two questions, which are fairly simple. If you choose not to
address them Magus that is fine. If you choose to address them in a fashion
that is not more propaganda even better. You seem to get a little defensive
tho when any questions the validity of the whole GN notion, and maybe that
is because you know that what some here have said is closer to the truth
than you wish us to know.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:13 AM
Praetorian,
I can't believe some of the things you said.
My argument is not nonsense in the respect of time. I am looking out for
my kin. I want to ensure my children and childrens children, etc enjoy what
I did and more. So who is the selfish one now?
Who said I was for anarchy? All I said was I would like more freedom.
That is not a call for anarchy. Oh yes, how about a tolitarian regieme, a
socialist "utopia", a communist government, or a world government taken over
by a genocidial mad man or woman? Sounds great to me - not! You know what -
I'd take anarchy over a police state anyday, that way I know I at least can
fend for myself if I need, I'll have a fighting chance.
Your whole last paragraph is beyond me. For one: What are you talking
about, I'm already free to go live and work anywhere else. I just chose not
to. Anyone can leave this country if they want to. Like Alec Baldwin for
example, he said he would if Bush got elected, but he never did - I wonder
why? Perhaps it's because he realizes there's nowhere else to go?
Two: I don't want to leave. I like it here.
Three: What you're telling me is that I should be ok with GN coming into
the states, and if I don't like it, the simple solution is to leave. Oh
really, and go where? To another country GN has taken over? Nope, you're the
one that needs to move. If you don't like it here and would rather live in a
GN controlled area, that's your call, you're free to go.
Four: That's what I'm saying, when the flags of GN invade the homeland of
the US it will be looked at as the same as terrorists or Nazi's landing on
our shores. You can count on a resistance from me, and I doubt I'm alone.
I agree with your thoughts on Homeland Security - but GN is not the
solution. Don't you know that people like Bush are the ones that are
probably in on such a thing as GN?
DTA - Don't Trust Anyone. That includes all governments.
[This message has been edited by Administrator2 (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nascarfan:
A few things that have become somewhat more appearent or transparent with
the entire GN notion is that, 1) the elitist class will be those dictating
what is and what is not legal right and proper; 2) the fact that they will
build these Citadels in such grand and spectacular fashions shows that it
will be to serve or reflect the elitist ruling class; and 3) I have yet to
have been told what garuntees there are that there will not be a
totalitarian system that serves the elitist class and further takes away
from those who are not within that class.
It would seem also that the one who has gotten to a point of the tantrums
my daughter throws is Magus. It would seem that he chooses not to answer our
questions in a straight forward fashion, but to put the GN party line on it
and cloud the issue further. I guess if you can't dazzle us with truth, then
attempt to baffle us with BS.
My questions are quite simple.
What garuntess are there for us that it will not be an evil totalitarian
system?
What benefit to nations such as the USA is to be part of this GN?
There are two questions, which are fairly simple. If you choose not to
address them Magus that is fine. If you choose to address them in a fashion
that is not more propaganda even better. You seem to get a little defensive
tho when any questions the validity of the whole GN notion, and maybe that
is because you know that what some here have said is closer to the truth
than you wish us to know.
It's no use Nascar. He'll just comeback by saying "Why don't you email
A.I. Rockefeller yourself to find out? I've answered a lot of questions."
I'm wondering why it is they want us to email Rockefeller ourselves?
Perhaps there's some secret he lets us in on? Some "offer" that we can not
"refuse"?
Sorry I care not to have an exchange with Mr. Rockefeller. He's rich, I
presume he's powerful. I expect if I'm that important he can come to me. He
can call me on the phone, send me an email, send me a letter, knock on my
door for all I care. Which I probably have said more than I wish at that.
The very thought of such makes me cringe.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 04:20 AM
Mr. Stair,
May I ask, what exactly is your position with Global Nation? What are
your duties? What exactly does a "Campaign Officer for USA" do? What is
Global Nation campaigning for in the United States? Are you campaigning on
issues? General elections with candidates? And who are your current
candidates if any?
http://www.rockefeller.com.au/gn/representatives.html
Also from that same page, found at the bottom:
"Is your State or Country represented here? Do you wish for your State and
Country to enjoy the benefits and unity of being in the Federation? You can
pave the way for your countries freedom and security by joining us today.
Visit our membership section for more information."
What does this mean? My country's security and freedom? Benefits? Are
these benefits meant to be immediate or does it mean after GN is in place?
And what are the benefits?
Sorry to hound you with questions.
[This message has been edited by Administrator2 (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 07:57 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Administrator2:
Praetorian,
My argument is not nonsense in the respect of time. I am looking out for
my kin. I want to ensure my children and childrens children, etc enjoy what
I did and more. So who is the selfish one now?
I have children too. Probably as old as you. I have grandchildren. And I
have fought and served in many a fierce campaigns. I know what the
consequences of dictatorships are. I have watched them form and grow. If
anyone here is afraid of such consequences it would be people like me. It is
with this 'wisdom' if you will call it such that makes this GN Constitution
beholds a total different way of thinking. From careful study of this
document there are so many countermeasures set in place to prevent
corruption and elites control that I think the men and women currently in
power would be very afraid of this system of government to take power. It is
a real peoples government that shuns persons seeking self empowerment. This
is a system unlike anything I have ever seen. It is indeed as close to a
'miracle' I've ever seen. The minds that put this together have come from an
oppressed background. No richman wrote this document. This is the work of a
highly intelligent and compassionate person(s) like you and me who aspires
to a great dream and hope of salvation from our self-destructing and
perishing world. This is a model of governance that is astounding. What I
fear greatest now is that those in the halls of power won't ever let it
happen. I think they may even try to kill those behind GN. Because if GN
succeeds the rich and powerful now will fall hard and fast everywhere.
Besides the creation of Christianity I seriously believe we are all
witnessing the birth of one of the greatest benevolent movements in
mankind's history.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 10:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Also from that same page, found at the bottom:
"Is your State or Country represented here? Do you wish for your State and
Country to enjoy the benefits and unity of being in the Federation?"
How can anyone possibly entertain the idea of joining the Starfleet
Federation, when we don't even have warp drive yet?
In all seriousness. I cannot buy into an idea of a Federation.
Why?
1) It's headed up by an elitest Rockefeller, who chooses to remain an
enigma and who has his puppet minions do his talking for him.
2) The answers delivered by the Global Nation representatives are vague
and tend to say. "See our constitution" or, "We're still hammering that one
out". when the questions posed to them are too difficult.
3) My fears have not adequately been addressed by the representatives.
4) The sheer fact that I get the willies when ever I address the GN
representatives on this Forum tells me that I have a hunch that something
insideous is going on with GN, and I will trust my hunch over trusting
Global Nation.
As a NewsMax moderator, I will support Global Nation's privilege to post
their ideas on this forum. but that does not mean that I support Global
Nation as a morally legitimate organization.
Nothing has given me reason to continue this discussion. I will continue
to lurk, but consider me gone.
May The Lord Jesus Christ open the hearts of the GN crowd and show them
the error of their ways, and may He protect the rest of the world from their
plan, according to His will.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 11:24 AM
Administrator2 - The Iranians that are supporting GN are the students.
The same students that keep getting into fights with their police because
they want more freedoms, a more representetive government, and a closer
relationship with the USA. If you took the time to read the proposed
constitution you would see why a totolitarian system of government wouldn't
happen under GN. You would not lose freedom. Instead you would gain freedom.
You would gain freedom of movement to any other GN state as you can freely
move between US states now. Whether or not you chose to use that freedom
would be up to you. As more nations chose to join GN there would
increasingly be less chance of war. Freedom from war doesn't sound like a
bad thing to me. All the laws of the USA would still apply under GN. You
would still have your laws and constitution in effect when GN is created.
I've only said that you folks should e-mail Amadeus if you want to know more
about him. That is the only time I have said you should contact him. I am
not complaining about all the questions, I am simply saying that I hope you
understand with the amount of questions that I may miss one or two and in
the interest of time may not always be as thorough as I like to be. As for
my duties I am currently focusing on informing people of GN's policies,
goals, etc. And expanding membership. We are not currently fielding
candidates since our party has not yet been registered with the government.
When we have a few more members we will worry about getting someone elected
currently it is just expansion and education about GN. To answer the last of
your questions, the benefits of a nations membership with GN some are
immediate others take place shortly after GN is in place. Some of the
benefits are: Increased security I.E. war, rebels, etc. Rebuilding/Repair of
important parts of social infrastructure: Hospitals, schools, water
treatment facilities, etc. If you wish to know more of the benefits then
read the proposed constitution. The vast majority of your questions would be
answered by simply reading that document and seeing what GN intends to do.
Nascarfan - The elitist class will not be dictating what is and what is
not legal, right, and proper. The government will which even you could be
elected to. The Citadels are not representetive of the eliteist class, they
are representetive of the government just as the White House and Pentagon
are. Those are hardly shacks themselves. If you took the time to read the
proposed constitution you would understand why the elitist would not be in
control and GN would not be a totolitarian government. Insult me if you
wish. I am starting to wonder if that is your favorite pastime. I am
answering your questions in a straight forward fashion. If you don't
understand the answer than simply ask me to rephrase it. You want to know
what garuntees there are against a totalitarian system? Read the proposed
constitution. I am not trying to avoid the question their are simply too
many counter measures to protect agains such a thing occuring to list them
all here. I have already stated some of the benefits earlier. Some benefits
obviously wouldn't apply to the USA such as the issue of slavery since the
USA has already taken care of that problem. How about all the money saved by
combining the armed forces? The money saved could be used repair delapidated
inner city schools or fund research to find the cure for Cancer, HIV, etc.
Well I am sure I repeated myself a number of times and I apologize for
that. I simply answered the questions as I read them down the page. Good day
to you all.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 11:46 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
In all seriousness. I cannot buy into an idea of a Federation.
Why?
1) It's headed up by an elitest Rockefeller, who chooses to remain an
enigma and who has his puppet minions do his talking for him.
I have read articles on your so-called elitist Rockefeller a few years
ago. Amadeus is far from an elitist and far from enigmatic. In an interview
I recall him denouncing the Globalists and condemning them as too secretive
and manipulate. I believe he was shunned and they have been trying to
silence him. This man is not an elitist. He is striking a blow at them.
Magus is quite right when he tells us to read the GN constitution. The whole
thing is anti-self power. The governing body itself is not allowed to
receive a salary. They are provided with a living allowance which is around
I believe 30,000 dollars per year. Far less than what I earned in the
forces. And members are required to break off all contact with any corporate
or political group when they hold office. This global government is a
richmans and an elitist nightmare! Power hungry people are basically enemies
of the state. So how on earth can you claim GN is an eletist organization?
Magus is right - you need to do some serious homework and read their
constitution properly. Stop reading between the lines. There's nothing
there! Sometimes a duck is a duck and nothing more.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
May The Lord Jesus Christ open the hearts of the GN crowd and show them
the error of their ways, and may He protect the rest of the world from their
plan, according to His will.
And as far as Jesus Christ concerned - did you ever wonder who's name is
on GN's great seal and their federation forces seal? God's sacred name
itself! Do you really think the Almighty would allow a so-called evil
organization to use his name???? I don't think so.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 12:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
[b]
In all seriousness. I cannot buy into an idea of a Federation.
Why?
1) It's headed up by an elitest Rockefeller, who chooses to remain an
enigma and who has his puppet minions do his talking for him.
I have read articles on your so-called elitist Rockefeller a few years
ago. Amadeus is far from an elitist and far from enigmatic. In an interview
I recall him denouncing the Globalists and condemning them as too secretive
and manipulate. I believe he was shunned and they have been trying to
silence him. This man is not an elitist. He is striking a blow at them.
Magus is quite right when he tells us to read the GN constitution. The whole
thing is anti-self power. The governing body itself is not allowed to
receive a salary. They are provided with a living allowance which is around
I believe 30,000 dollars per year. Far less than what I earned in the
forces. And members are required to break off all contact with any corporate
or political group when they hold office. This global government is a
richmans and an elitist nightmare! Power hungry people are basically enemies
of the state. So how on earth can you claim GN is an eletist organization?
Magus is right - you need to do some serious homework and read their
constitution properly. Stop reading between the lines. There's nothing
there! Sometimes a duck is a duck and nothing more.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
May The Lord Jesus Christ open the hearts of the GN crowd and show them
the error of their ways, and may He protect the rest of the world from their
plan, according to His will.
And as far as Jesus Christ concerned - did you ever wonder who's name is
on GN's great seal and their federation forces seal? God's sacred name
itself! Do you really think the Almighty would allow a so-called evil
organization to use his name???? I don't think so.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).][/B]
I would love someone to post more information on Amadeus than what I can
pull up doing a Google search. All I get are links to the Global Nation
website.
If you could provide some links to interviews and more information, I
would be happy to read up on Amadeus.
As far as the Global Nation constitution is concerned, there is only one
God, yet the GN's Great Seal and the Federation seal mention God, yet which
God?
There are many God's for many faiths, yet only one God is the true God.
Which God does the Great Seal and Federation seal embrace?
The Muslim God? The Hindu God(s)? Pagan God(s)?
Which God is it?
If it is the Christian God, yet all Gods are embraced, then already one
of the Ten Commandments has been violated.
"Thou Shalt Not Have Any Gods Before Me."
If Global Nation embraces other false Gods, then there is no Moral
mandate for Global Nation, and definately not the true God's blessing on the
Global Nation efforts.
IP:
Logged
Stinko the Pinko
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 12:17 PM
The GN founding documents including the GN constitution do not
specifically mention recognization of marriage between people of the same
gender, but it does offer protections for sexual orientation. Why?
Can someone PU-LEEZE tell me why I should go out of my way to support GN,
if GN does not alow me to marry someone of the same gender?
I have a hard enough time with the United State's stand on not allowing
homosexual marriges.
Now I would have to contend with GN not allowing homosexual marriages?

PEACE!
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 12:51 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
I would love someone to post more information on Amadeus than what I can
pull up doing a Google search. All I get are links to the Global Nation
website.
If you could provide some links to interviews and more information, I
would be happy to read up on Amadeus.
I will see if I can find those old articles. Give me a few weeks. The
elite he stands up to dont want you to know anything - so they might have
buried the stories. But I'll look anyway.
As far as the Global Nation constitution is concerned, there is only one
God, yet the GN's Great Seal and the Federation seal mention God, yet which
God?
There are many God's for many faiths, yet only one God is the true God.
Which God does the Great Seal and Federation seal embrace?
The Muslim God? The Hindu God(s)? Pagan God(s)?
Which God is it?
If it is the Christian God, yet all Gods are embraced, then already one
of the Ten Commandments has been violated.
"Thou Shalt Not Have Any Gods Before Me."
If Global Nation embraces other false Gods, then there is no Moral
mandate for Global Nation, and definately not the true God's blessing on the
Global Nation efforts.
The God that GN has on its seal is the one that has been known since any
other was known. The seal holds the God that both Muslims, the Jews and
Christians all agree and recognize as the true God YHWH pronuced Yahweh or
JHVH translated roughly into modern english from the Latin as Jehovah.
Jehovah is the God of Abraham and Moses, King David, Solomon and Jesus.
Now I ask again - would our Almightly allow his sacred name be used on a
government that didnt have his blessing or wasnt part of his plan to help
restore the earth???
Now this is a wild and personal theory of mine I know but It just might
be that GN is going to be used by the Almightly (maybe they dont even
realize it) to pave the path for Christs return! A radical thought I know.
But one that needs serious contemplation. Why do I say this? There is a
scripture from the old testament that talks about God bringing forth such a
government in the 'last days'. This ancient prophecy in the book of Daniel
2:44 has not yet been fulfilled and I believe may be the purpose of GN's
destiny: "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a
kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not
be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these
kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."
It's worth thinking about.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 01:28 PM
People will be made into criminals via "definitions"
http://www.newsmax.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000273.html
"This concern was taken up by a number of
other members of the group, and one or two
increased our sense of gloom when they
argued that within these "non-elites" there is
now much evidence of a "permanently
disenfranchised minority", who will provide
the main reservoir of support for terrorists in
years to come."
Resistors are already being labelled
And the UN has some definitions of their own.
When I called my Rep to ask for the definition of a terrorist I was told to
call the UN Hummmmmm.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Unless you decide to become a career criminal then I don't see why you
would ever be removed from your home. Are you planning on becoming a career
criminal?

IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 01:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
People will be made into criminals via "definitions"
http://www.newsmax.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000273.html
"This concern was taken up by a number of
other members of the group, and one or two
increased our sense of gloom when they
argued that within these "non-elites" there is
now much evidence of a "permanently
disenfranchised minority", who will provide
the main reservoir of support for terrorists in
years to come."
Resistors are already being labelled
And the UN has some definitions of their own.
When I called my Rep to ask for the definition of a terrorist I was told to
call the UN Hummmmmm.
Roboodoon ... as I have noticed throughout this Topic, which you started
(thankfully) I might add, you go right off the track with something that has
nothing to do with rockefeller or GN. Honestly young man - tell us how that
idiotic document you are quoting - that was I believe pushed by the World
Citizen Foundation President Troy Davis - has anything to do whatsoever with
Global Nation?
The other moderators keep to the issue of debate. Do you think you could
at least try and do the same. Otherwise this whole debate and thread is
pointless and your waisting our time.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
[b] I would love someone to post more information on Amadeus than what I can
pull up doing a Google search. All I get are links to the Global Nation
website.
If you could provide some links to interviews and more information, I
would be happy to read up on Amadeus.
I will see if I can find those old articles. Give me a few weeks. The
elite he stands up to dont want you to know anything - so they might have
buried the stories. But I'll look anyway.
As far as the Global Nation constitution is concerned, there is only one
God, yet the GN's Great Seal and the Federation seal mention God, yet which
God?
There are many God's for many faiths, yet only one God is the true God.
Which God does the Great Seal and Federation seal embrace?
The Muslim God? The Hindu God(s)? Pagan God(s)?
Which God is it?
If it is the Christian God, yet all Gods are embraced, then already one
of the Ten Commandments has been violated.
"Thou Shalt Not Have Any Gods Before Me."
If Global Nation embraces other false Gods, then there is no Moral
mandate for Global Nation, and definately not the true God's blessing on the
Global Nation efforts.
The God that GN has on its seal is the one that has been known since any
other was known. The seal holds the God that both Muslims, the Jews and
Christians all agree and recognize as the true God YHWH pronuced Yahweh or
JHVH translated roughly into modern english from the Latin as Jehovah.
Jehovah is the God of Abraham and Moses, King David, Solomon and Jesus.
Now I ask again - would our Almightly allow his sacred name be used on a
government that didnt have his blessing or wasnt part of his plan to help
restore the earth???
Now this is a wild and personal theory of mine I know but It just might
be that GN is going to be used by the Almightly (maybe they dont even
realize it) to pave the path for Christs return! A radical thought I know.
But one that needs serious contemplation. Why do I say this? There is a
scripture from the old testament that talks about God bringing forth such a
government in the 'last days'. This ancient prophecy in the book of Daniel
2:44 has not yet been fulfilled and I believe may be the purpose of GN's
destiny: "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a
kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not
be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these
kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."
It's worth thinking about.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).][/B]
Ahhh I see now. So you and group of other people believe you are the ones
that will make possible the return of Christ?
Well I'll be, I guess I'm the one that was way off. You do know that the
destruction of the Earth will be brought forth with this world government?
So why not speed the process up? I see.
What kind of sense does that make?
[This message has been edited by Administrator2 (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 02:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Ahhh I see now. So you and group of other people believe you are the ones
that will make possible the return of Christ?
Well all be, I guess I'm the one that was way off. You do know that the
destruction of the Earth will be brought forth with this world government?
So why not speed the process up? I see.
What kind of sense does that make?
Oh bloodyhell. I am not part of any group. I said it was my own personal
theory. Take it or leave it.
And where in the bible does it say the earth will be destoyed????? I'd
like to see that scripture. Unless you are calling God a lier. >>>eek is
that bolt of lightning coming your way!!!!<<<
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stinko the Pinko:
The GN founding documents including the GN constitution do not
specifically mention recognization of marriage between people of the same
gender, but it does offer protections for sexual orientation. Why?
Can someone PU-LEEZE tell me why I should go out of my way to support GN,
if GN does not alow me to marry someone of the same gender?
I have a hard enough time with the United State's stand on not allowing
homosexual marriges.
Now I would have to contend with GN not allowing homosexual marriages?

[b]PEACE![/B]
Now that we know which God GN favors, I want to see the answer to the
question Stinko has raised.
Stinko, you're always raising a stink.

Also, I would like my question addressed Mr. Stair. What exactly is GN
campaigning for in the United States? You are the Campaign Officer.
Althougth I have yet to hear of any of your candidates. You said you weren't
here to win hearts and minds - then what exactly would a campagin officer be
doing then?
Your statements are starting to contradict each other.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Oh bloodyhell. I am not part of any group. I said it was my own personal
theory. Take it or leave it.
And where in the bible does it say the earth will be destoyed????? I'd
like to see that scripture. Unless you are calling God a lier. >>>eek is
that bolt of lightning coming your way!!!!<<<
I didn't mean the destruction of the Earth in the same sense that you are
thinking.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 02:27 PM
You need to reread what he said. He wasn't speaking of the government
controlled by the antichrist but the government controlled by christ
himself.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 02:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
I would like my question addressed Mr. Stair. What exactly is GN
campaigning for in the United States? You are the Campaign Officer.
Althougth I have yet to hear of any of your candidates. You said you weren't
here to win hearts and minds - then what exactly would a campagin officer be
doing then?
Ahem. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Mr Magus already answered
that question before when he said:
quote:
We are not currently fielding candidates since our party has not yet been
registered with the government. When we have a few more members we will
worry about getting someone elected currently it is just expansion and
education about GN.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
Thank you, I missed that. Easy to do on both sides of this with the rapid
fire replies we are feeding each other.

Carry on...
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 30, 2002 02:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
You need to reread what he said. He wasn't speaking of the government
controlled by the antichrist but the government controlled by christ
himself.
Ok, so you believe that Global Nation will/could be the Kingdom of God?
I just want to get this straight here about what you're saying.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 03:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Ok, so you believe that Global Nation will/could be the Kingdom of God?
I just want to get this straight here about what you're saying.
I don't think Magus actually was saying that. I was theorising that God
may use the GN system to do his clean-up work before the arrival of the
Messiah. I doubt GN is aware of this or its members. I think they may become
Gods pawns to establish the new world in which the messiah will arrive. God
works in mysterious ways after all.
IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 03:20 PM
Well well well, Magus has again referred us to the GN Constitution.
Claims that I have insulted him, or at least thinks that is my favorite pass
time. Well I have read your precious little GN Constitution, which you so
happily feel prevents the totalitarian system that many of us feel would
come of the world governtment.
The "Supreme Soveriegn", and his infinite power and decision ability, is
one of the things alone that would lead me to believe that what you say the
GN Constitution guards against, does the oposite. You have one supreme
leader or your "Imperial Forces, Federation Guards, etc" with the ultimate
contol of those forces, and you want me to think that there is no way on
God's green earth that there could be an evil leader bent of total control.
Well then, you are more touched than I had once thought. (For the record,
that is an insult, the first actual insult that I have leveled your way).
The fact that you wish to control all of the nations under one supreme
government shows that it is a goverment not for the greater good, but one
bent on global domination. You ask wouldnt having all of the armed forces
under one control be the answer. Hell no. I served this nation and would
gladly do it again in a heartbeat if needed. But that is this nation. NOT GN.
You have made it quite clear though, that there are some things that you
will not address, and that is fine. Don't get me wrong, you have the Right
to have your opinion and I for one would not take that away from you.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 03:41 PM
Magus, this is my last post. I have better things to do than to listen to
these people pull apart a glorious vision of hope and prosperity. If I were
you I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with these people anymore. They
are set in their minds and ways. I believe in your cause and a great
multitude of others will too. I say leave these infidels here to bicker
among themselves and pull down people. You and your friends across the world
go on and keep pursuing your dream. For it is a wonderful one. And one day I
believe it will come into fruition and all shall be realized. And the same
people who opposed you and your wonderful dream will become your greatest
admirers as history has always proved.
God bless.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 03:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
[QUOTE]
Now this is a wild and personal theory of mine I know but It just might be
that GN is going to be used by the Almightly (maybe they dont even realize
it) to pave the path for Christs return! A radical thought I know. But one
that needs serious contemplation. Why do I say this? There is a scripture
from the old testament that talks about God bringing forth such a government
in the 'last days'. This ancient prophecy in the book of Daniel 2:44 has not
yet been fulfilled and I believe may be the purpose of GN's destiny: "And in
the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will
never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to
any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it
itself will stand to times indefinite."
It's worth thinking about.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
Most commentaries of Daniel, chapter 2 say that such a kingdom will not
be set up by the hand of man, but God.
For GN to embrace the false faith of Islam indicates that Daniel 2:44 is
not talking about GN being the God ordained world government. The Global
government spoken of in Daniel chapter 2 would be a government ruled Jesus
Christ the Son of God not by Mahammed a false prophet.
If Global nation is willing to embrace false faiths, then perhaps Global
Nation is the planned instrument to be used by the anti-christ to usher in
the end times.
Your inclusion of Islam as one of "the true" faith, in your response
indicates that GN wishes to meld the religions together into a one world
religion, or that the authors of the GN constitution do not really know God,
the Bible, and are ignorant of end time prophesy.
Pehaps GN will be the instrument to be used by the anti-christ to reach
his goal of his desired world domination.
Remember; Jesus said, "No one gets to the Father except through me."
To embrace false religions, any religion other than what the Bible
teaches plays into the hands of the anti-christ.
The question is. In light if Global Nation's embracing of religions along
with Christianity, what is Global Nation's motive? To meld the world's
religions together, to create a false super religion to be the religion of
the anti-christ?
Either the Bible is telling the truth, or Global Nation is.
I know what I trust.
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 04:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Magus, this is my last post. I have better things to do than to listen to
these people pull apart a glorious vision of hope and prosperity. If I were
you I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with these people anymore. They
are set in their minds and ways. I believe in your cause and a great
multitude of others will too. I say leave these infidels here to bicker
among themselves and pull down people. You and your friends across the world
go on and keep pursuing your dream. For it is a wonderful one. And one day I
believe it will come into fruition and all shall be realized. And the same
people who opposed you and your wonderful dream will become your greatest
admirers as history has always proved.
God bless.
So what your saying is that you are leaving, because you have not found a
stable of sheeple to preach to here?
I don't know what gave you the idea that your message would spread so
easily. But for you to turn tail and run when someone seriously questions GN
and GN's motives in this discussion is quite telling that you are not up to
the task your leaders have given you.
You call us infidels, because we don't accept your message of a grand
world dominating government? Infidels? You're not a MUSLIM, are you? You
call us Infidels, because we do not believe as you do?
You have just exposed what GN has in store for Infidels. Convert, or
Kill. 
Do you expect the world to roll over and to buy the snake oil you are
selling?
You talk of a glorious vision of prosperity. For who? The leaders and
representatives of Global Nation on their subject's backs?
You claim that those who oppose the nightmare of Global Nation will
become Magnus' greatest admirers as history has shown. Is Magnus the leader
of GN now? What happend to Amadeus?
You are a deceitful liar, Praetorian.
History shows that when a man is oppressed and subjected to a tyranncal
government, that he rebels and fights back.
I guran-damn-tee you that no foreign constitution or government will rule
over me or my family.
Should a foreign government entity even try to make me a subject of their
one world plan, that I will fight to my last breath to ensure that they do
not do that here in these United States.
I also guran-damn-tee you that you will run into resistance from Millions
of Americans, and that your goal will never see fruition here in America.
How dare you run off and snub a discussion, and acuse us of being closed
minded.
I accuse you of being simple minded to have bought into such a load of
claptrap such as Global Nation, and knowing little of the subject of which
you support and being unable to discuss the issues when put to you.
Magnus, Praetorian ought to be an embarassment to your cause.
Hey, I'm willing to keep discussing the subject. But you, Praetorian,
have shown that you are not up to the task.

IP:
Logged
Strings
Senior Member
posted
July 30, 2002 09:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Magus, this is my last post. I have better things to do than to listen to
these people pull apart a glorious vision of hope and prosperity. If I were
you I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with these people anymore. They
are set in their minds and ways. I believe in your cause and a great
multitude of others will too. I say leave these infidels here to bicker
among themselves and pull down people. You and your friends across the world
go on and keep pursuing your dream. For it is a wonderful one. And one day I
believe it will come into fruition and all shall be realized. And the same
people who opposed you and your wonderful dream will become your greatest
admirers as history has always proved.
God bless.
ooohhh boy!!!!

IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 30, 2002 11:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Magus, this is my last post.
God bless.
Hey now, don't go making promises you don't intend to keep.

BTW, is that how this will go with minions of the GN. Since you don't
like the reception you get you run away. We could only be so lucky.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 31, 2002 12:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
>>> On what basis do you base your views of the Iranian people? I do not
profess to kinow as I havent been there and I do not believe their people
are free to speak otherwise.
>>>That is quite selfish to only concern yourself with your life and not
with your posterity.
>>> No one here is professing we adopt anarchy, but if I had to choose
between anarchy and oppression I'll take anarchy. History has shown us that
oppression is the normal progress of govt.
>>> Leraving the US is not difficult. And do you think the GN will not
require pasports or some form of traveling papers? Yes we are in danger of
losing our freedoms from both those on the right and left, but are you
really willing to risk the freedom that you have now for that which is only
a promise? I highly doubt they will offer as much. They already speak of
limiting firearms which is a violation of our Constitution ( which we are
doing as well) . My friend Im afraid you will be heading for further tryanny
with this regime as there will be no checks and balances. (there will be no
other nations)
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 31, 2002 01:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Praetorian,
I can't believe some of the things you said.
My argument is not nonsense in the respect of time. I am looking out for
my kin. I want to ensure my children and childrens children, etc enjoy what
I did and more. So who is the selfish one now?
Who said I was for anarchy? All I said was I would like more freedom.
That is not a call for anarchy. Oh yes, how about a tolitarian regieme, a
socialist "utopia", a communist government, or a world government taken over
by a genocidial mad man or woman? Sounds great to me - not! You know what -
I'd take anarchy over a police state anyday, that way I know I at least can
fend for myself if I need, I'll have a fighting chance.
Your whole last paragraph is beyond me. For one: What are you talking
about, I'm already free to go live and work anywhere else. I just chose not
to. Anyone can leave this country if they want to. Like Alec Baldwin for
example, he said he would if Bush got elected, but he never did - I wonder
why? Perhaps it's because he realizes there's nowhere else to go?
Two: I don't want to leave. I like it here.
Three: What you're telling me is that I should be ok with GN coming into
the states, and if I don't like it, the simple solution is to leave. Oh
really, and go where? To another country GN has taken over? Nope, you're the
one that needs to move. If you don't like it here and would rather live in a
GN controlled area, that's your call, you're free to go.
Four: That's what I'm saying, when the flags of GN invade the homeland of
the US it will be looked at as the same as terrorists or Nazi's landing on
our shores. You can count on a resistance from me, and I doubt I'm alone.
I agree with your thoughts on Homeland Security - but GN is not the
solution. Don't you know that people like Bush are the ones that are
probably in on such a thing as GN?
DTA - Don't Trust Anyone. That includes all governments.
[This message has been edited by Administrator2 (edited July 30, 2002).]
>>>> I replied prior to reading yours, I guess we agree on a few things
eh? 
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 31, 2002 01:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Administrator2:
[b]Praetorian,
My argument is not nonsense in the respect of time. I am looking out for
my kin. I want to ensure my children and childrens children, etc enjoy what
I did and more. So who is the selfish one now?
I have children too. Probably as old as you. I have grandchildren. And I
have fought and served in many a fierce campaigns. I know what the
consequences of dictatorships are. I have watched them form and grow. If
anyone here is afraid of such consequences it would be people like me. It is
with this 'wisdom' if you will call it such that makes this GN Constitution
beholds a total different way of thinking. From careful study of this
document there are so many countermeasures set in place to prevent
corruption and elites control that I think the men and women currently in
power would be very afraid of this system of government to take power. It is
a real peoples government that shuns persons seeking self empowerment. This
is a system unlike anything I have ever seen. It is indeed as close to a
'miracle' I've ever seen. The minds that put this together have come from an
oppressed background. No richman wrote this document. This is the work of a
highly intelligent and compassionate person(s) like you and me who aspires
to a great dream and hope of salvation from our self-destructing and
perishing world. This is a model of governance that is astounding. What I
fear greatest now is that those in the halls of power won't ever let it
happen. I think they may even try to kill those behind GN. Because if GN
succeeds the rich and powerful now will fall hard and fast everywhere.
Besides the creation of Christianity I seriously believe we are all
witnessing the birth of one of the greatest benevolent movements in
mankind's history.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).][/B]
>>> And many thought the same during the "Long March" with Mao. I guess
they were wrong huh? No document in and of its self can EVER protect or
maintain freedom. It takes constant vigilance to protect freedom. To
paraphrase Jefferson, "Fromm time to time blood must be spilled to maintain
freedom."
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 31, 2002 01:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Administrator2 - The Iranians that are supporting GN are the students.
The same students that keep getting into fights with their police because
they want more freedoms, a more representetive government, and a closer
relationship with the USA. If you took the time to read the proposed
constitution you would see why a totolitarian system of government wouldn't
happen under GN. You would not lose freedom. Instead you would gain freedom.
You would gain freedom of movement to any other GN state as you can freely
move between US states now. Whether or not you chose to use that freedom
would be up to you. As more nations chose to join GN there would
increasingly be less chance of war. Freedom from war doesn't sound like a
bad thing to me.
>>>> Communist Russia had low levels of crime, did that make it a Utopia?
No one wants war but the sunsequent peace you offer may be at the cost of
freedom.
>>>>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the last days aside from a 1 world
govt isn't there supposed to be a period of peace brought about by the
anti-Christ?
All the laws of the USA would still apply under GN. You would still have
your laws and constitution in effect when GN is created.
>>> Then why do we need the GN? Sounds like a UN with more teeth.
I've only said that you folks should e-mail Amadeus if you want to know more
about him. That is the only time I have said you should contact him. I am
not complaining about all the questions, I am simply saying that I hope you
understand with the amount of questions that I may miss one or two and in
the interest of time may not always be as thorough as I like to be. As for
my duties I am currently focusing on informing people of GN's policies,
goals, etc. And expanding membership. We are not currently fielding
candidates since our party has not yet been registered with the government.
When we have a few more members we will worry about getting someone elected
currently it is just expansion and education about GN.
Why do you need members in OUR Congress if :
1- membership is volutary
2- The benefits will make all want to join
3- you will have a governing body of your own
>>> It seems to me more like a way to indoctrinate from within.
To answer the last of your questions, the benefits of a nations
membership with GN some are immediate others take place shortly after GN is
in place. Some of the benefits are: Increased security I.E. war, rebels,
etc.
>>> OK you have stated that joinging is volutary, does this mean
automatic as well? Will you allow the likes of Saddam or Hitler to join or
will there be necessary reforms needed before they are allowed?
Rebuilding/Repair of important parts of social infrastructure: Hospitals,
schools, water treatment facilities, etc. If you wish to know more of the
benefits then read the proposed constitution. The vast majority of your
questions would be answered by simply reading that document and seeing what
GN intends to do.
Nascarfan - The elitist class will not be dictating what is and what is
not legal, right, and proper. The government will which even you could be
elected to. The Citadels are not representetive of the eliteist class, they
are representetive of the government just as the White House and Pentagon
are. Those are hardly shacks themselves. If you took the time to read the
proposed constitution you would understand why the elitist would not be in
control and GN would not be a totolitarian government. Insult me if you
wish. I am starting to wonder if that is your favorite pastime. I am
answering your questions in a straight forward fashion. If you don't
understand the answer than simply ask me to rephrase it. You want to know
what garuntees there are against a totalitarian system? Read the proposed
constitution. I am not trying to avoid the question their are simply too
many counter measures to protect agains such a thing occuring to list them
all here. I have already stated some of the benefits earlier. Some benefits
obviously wouldn't apply to the USA such as the issue of slavery since the
USA has already taken care of that problem. How about all the money saved by
combining the armed forces?
>>>>>Just like the money we were to save with welfare reform? The outlaws
for these programs have not receeded and to top it off more programs, like
school to work, have been created or expanded. I'm quite certain your govt
will not be anymore efficient.
The money saved could be used repair delapidated inner city schools or fund
research to find the cure for Cancer, HIV, etc.
Well I am sure I repeated myself a number of times and I apologize for
that. I simply answered the questions as I read them down the page. Good day
to you all.
>>>> Please answer these questions. I have not received your answers to
questions recently.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 31, 2002 01:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Administrator2:
Ok, so you believe that Global Nation will/could be the Kingdom of God?
I just want to get this straight here about what you're saying.
>>> And remember the Bible states that many will be fooled.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
July 31, 2002 01:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Magus, this is my last post. I have better things to do than to listen to
these people pull apart a glorious vision of hope and prosperity. If I were
you I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with these people anymore. They
are set in their minds and ways. I believe in your cause and a great
multitude of others will too. I say leave these infidels here to bicker
among themselves and pull down people. You and your friends across the world
go on and keep pursuing your dream. For it is a wonderful one. And one day I
believe it will come into fruition and all shall be realized. And the same
people who opposed you and your wonderful dream will become your greatest
admirers as history has always proved.
God bless.
>>> Sounds like a sequel to the Communist Manifesto.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
July 31, 2002 03:52 PM
These guys have a long ways to go if they let a band of 4 or 5 lowly red
blooded, blue collared, Joe-six-pack, hick Americans get under their skin.

We didn't back down to the Brits, the Germans, the Russians, or anyone
else and we haven't backed down to terrorism. I for one won't be backing
down to a bunch of spoiled intellectual globalists.
I'll take 10 good people fighting for freedom and defending their way of
life over 10 armies fighting for conquest any day.
IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 04:20 PM
I agree 110% with you A2. these people tell us that they have the answer
to all of our problems by creating one world government. Yeah well they can
have it, as I know that I will not be jumping on their bandwagon.
IP:
Logged
nascarfan
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 04:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
>>> No document in and of its self can EVER protect or maintain freedom.
It takes constant vigilance to protect freedom. To paraphrase Jefferson, "Fromm
time to time blood must be spilled to maintain freedom."
It could not be said any better. The fact of the matter is, they can sit
and tell me and us, that their little GN Constitution is all we need as a
garuntee, but as far as I am concerned it isn't worth the space it takes up
on the web, let alone it being the garuntee that there will not be any
chance of a totalitarian regime. Their constitution itself stinks of a
leader with the final ultimate say.
Oh and good luck under their system, many of the penalties for braking
their laws include exile from GN until the end of your natural life. Yeah
thats not setting a tone for follow us or else.
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 07:46 PM
You are either a faker , an idiot or a stooge…. Sorry.

The statements you are making; make no sense at all,,,its hogwash,
rantings of a no nothing!!
(sorry I'm in a crappy mood and your on the other end this time

I would just like to know do you have any idea about what you are talking
about????
Because from my end like I said, you are selling something or you are
Grandpa boob!
PS sorry to be so mean, but our lives are a stake....sorry
dude......besides I'm in a crappy mood.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Administrator2:
[b]Praetorian,
My argument is not nonsense in the respect of time. I am looking out for
my kin. I want to ensure my children and childrens children, etc enjoy what
I did and more. So who is the selfish one now?
I have children too. Probably as old as you. I have grandchildren. And I
have fought and served in many a fierce campaigns. I know what the
consequences of dictatorships are. I have watched them form and grow. If
anyone here is afraid of such consequences it would be people like me. It is
with this 'wisdom' if you will call it such that makes this GN Constitution
beholds a total different way of thinking. From careful study of this
document there are so many countermeasures set in place to prevent
corruption and elites control that I think the men and women currently in
power would be very afraid of this system of government to take power. It is
a real peoples government that shuns persons seeking self empowerment. This
is a system unlike anything I have ever seen. It is indeed as close to a
'miracle' I've ever seen. The minds that put this together have come from an
oppressed background. No richman wrote this document. This is the work of a
highly intelligent and compassionate person(s) like you and me who aspires
to a great dream and hope of salvation from our self-destructing and
perishing world. This is a model of governance that is astounding. What I
fear greatest now is that those in the halls of power won't ever let it
happen. I think they may even try to kill those behind GN. Because if GN
succeeds the rich and powerful now will fall hard and fast everywhere.
Besides the creation of Christianity I seriously believe we are all
witnessing the birth of one of the greatest benevolent movements in
mankind's history.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).][/B]
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 31, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 07:50 PM
U funny "Grandpa" ho ho ho
this is just getting sad at this point

Originally posted by Magus:
Trust me. Global Nation is NOT a hoax.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree this isnt a hoax. If it was it would have been shut down
immediately by just about every government on the planet not to mention the
Rockefeller's themselves. Just reading through the Constitution is evidence
that this innocent looking website is deadly serious. Have a look at the
Constitution at the following article:
CHAPTER IV SECT 77
Vertical Integration Board
77. There shall be a Vertical Integration Board, with such powers of
adjudication and administration as the Governing Body deems necessary for
the execution and maintenance of States, within the Federation, of the
provisions of this Constitution relating to trade, commerce and foreign
policies, and of all laws made there under:
The Vertical Integration Board shall immediately take control and
dissolve the following organizations, of which this list is not exhausted
according to the directives that the Governing Body may execute; shall be:
The Tri-Lateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, The United
Nations, The Bilderberg Group, Club of Rome, Royal Institute of
International Affairs.
DO YOU SEE the organisations mentioned above that GN is going to
dissolve? The most powerful organisations on earth! These organisations
would have jumped on GN immeditely if they were not privy too it. This is
serious S***. Think people think.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Roboodoon ... as I have noticed throughout this Topic, which you started
(thankfully) I might add, you go right off the track with something that has
nothing to do with rockefeller or GN. Honestly young man - tell us how that
idiotic document you are quoting - that was I believe pushed by the World
Citizen Foundation President Troy Davis - has anything to do whatsoever with
Global Nation?
The other moderators keep to the issue of debate. Do you think you could
at least try and do the same. Otherwise this whole debate and thread is
pointless and your waisting our time.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 07:50 PM
U funny "Grandpa" ho ho ho
this is just getting sad at this point

Originally posted by Magus:
Trust me. Global Nation is NOT a hoax.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree this isnt a hoax. If it was it would have been shut down
immediately by just about every government on the planet not to mention the
Rockefeller's themselves. Just reading through the Constitution is evidence
that this innocent looking website is deadly serious. Have a look at the
Constitution at the following article:
CHAPTER IV SECT 77
Vertical Integration Board
77. There shall be a Vertical Integration Board, with such powers of
adjudication and administration as the Governing Body deems necessary for
the execution and maintenance of States, within the Federation, of the
provisions of this Constitution relating to trade, commerce and foreign
policies, and of all laws made there under:
The Vertical Integration Board shall immediately take control and
dissolve the following organizations, of which this list is not exhausted
according to the directives that the Governing Body may execute; shall be:
The Tri-Lateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, The United
Nations, The Bilderberg Group, Club of Rome, Royal Institute of
International Affairs.
DO YOU SEE the organisations mentioned above that GN is going to
dissolve? The most powerful organisations on earth! These organisations
would have jumped on GN immeditely if they were not privy too it. This is
serious S***. Think people think.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Roboodoon ... as I have noticed throughout this Topic, which you started
(thankfully) I might add, you go right off the track with something that has
nothing to do with rockefeller or GN. Honestly young man - tell us how that
idiotic document you are quoting - that was I believe pushed by the World
Citizen Foundation President Troy Davis - has anything to do whatsoever with
Global Nation?
The other moderators keep to the issue of debate. Do you think you could
at least try and do the same. Otherwise this whole debate and thread is
pointless and your waisting our time.
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited July 30, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 08:03 PM
The Elites have always used the gays for their designs. In America the
only reason gays are supported (ie via the ford foundation) is for
division,,, that’s all.
Homosexuality is against God and will not be supported in the END.
But like in Nazi Germany, the homosexuals can be "used" for certain
purposes.
Christians aren't going to bother you if you want to go against God's
design. They will only bother you when your views are hoist on top of them
like is happening in America today.
The Gay are being lied to just like the straights...and we will all suffer
because its easy to use bias to forward design.
PS I know I might come off rough, I have had gay friends all my
life.....but its not the gays causing the problems, it is another body.
Peace...I'm sorry if I come off as a meanie
But
it is a little more than just black and white….on now I’m a racist…..golly I
just can't win

quote:
Originally posted by Stinko the Pinko:
The GN founding documents including the GN constitution do not
specifically mention recognization of marriage between people of the same
gender, but it does offer protections for sexual orientation. Why?
Can someone PU-LEEZE tell me why I should go out of my way to support GN,
if GN does not alow me to marry someone of the same gender?
I have a hard enough time with the United State's stand on not allowing
homosexual marriges.
Now I would have to contend with GN not allowing homosexual marriages?

[b]PEACE![/B]
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 31, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 08:05 PM
"Thou Shalt Not Have Any Gods Before Me."
Yet America has forgotten the first Commandment..
.... no
really that is a very big deal....for those who would label me

IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
July 31, 2002 08:20 PM
What’s next ?
Are we going to have old lady whining about the safety of their precious
grandchildren and the mean old people of the USA not want to be nice to
everyone.....?
Please send in some muscle and get it over with.
Patty cake,,, that's what they are playing with us....patty cake, patty
cake bakers man.....AMAZING!!!!
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited July 31, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
August 01, 2002 02:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nascarfan:
It could not be said any better. The fact of the matter is, they can sit
and tell me and us, that their little GN Constitution is all we need as a
garuntee, but as far as I am concerned it isn't worth the space it takes up
on the web, let alone it being the garuntee that there will not be any
chance of a totalitarian regime. Their constitution itself stinks of a
leader with the final ultimate say.
Oh and good luck under their system, many of the penalties for braking
their laws include exile from GN until the end of your natural life. Yeah
thats not setting a tone for follow us or else.
>>> And should every nation "join" where will we be exiled to?
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
August 01, 2002 04:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
>>> And should every nation "join" where will we be exiled to?
I would dare say the Moon, but perhaps by then they will set their sites
on becoming "Universal Nation".
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
August 01, 2002 05:56 PM
Stick a fork in this thread, it's done.
I am sad to see that Magnus and the gang are no longer interested in
discussion GN with us.
I hope we were't to "closedminded" and difficult for them. Do they expect
the rest of the world to roll over and submit to GN?
I was just begining to get to know the mindset of one worlders, and while
the GN representatives motives for what they are backing are probably
innocent. I hope that they see that their leadership would do most anything
to see their dream come to fruition, even at the expense of the GN
underlings.
I am sad to see the discussion ending.
IP:
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Author
Topic: Rockefeller Announces Global Government
Magus
Senior Member
posted
August 02, 2002 01:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Stick a fork in this thread, it's done.
I am sad to see that Magnus and the gang are no longer interested in
discussion GN with us.
I hope we were't to "closedminded" and difficult for them. Do they expect
the rest of the world to roll over and submit to GN?
I was just begining to get to know the mindset of one worlders, and while
the GN representatives motives for what they are backing are probably
innocent. I hope that they see that their leadership would do most anything
to see their dream come to fruition, even at the expense of the GN
underlings.
I am sad to see the discussion ending.
Oh you don't have to kid. You would never be sad to see me go. You will
celebrate it. Don't be to comfortable though. I will still stop in to say hi
once in a while. As for the GN leadership you have judged them without ever
even knowing them and that is sad. We all have the same enemy but you think
we are a part of them. It's sad that you never truly wanted to listen to
what I had to say.
IP:
Logged
Administrator2
Administrator
posted
August 02, 2002 02:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Oh you don't have to kid. You would never be sad to see me go. You will
celebrate it. Don't be to comfortable though. I will still stop in to say hi
once in a while. As for the GN leadership you have judged them without ever
even knowing them and that is sad. We all have the same enemy but you think
we are a part of them. It's sad that you never truly wanted to listen to
what I had to say.
Magus,
Hearing you say such things as "don't get comfortable" gives me the
creeps.
Is it likely that you, or perhaps the leadership if they are reading this
has judged us without knowing us? The truth is, we judge each other all the
time to a certain extent.
What is our common enemy?
I'm listening. I'm done talking for a while on this. I have other things
in my life to tend to. But believe me, oh I am listening. We all are. We are
watching as well.
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
August 02, 2002 02:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Oh you don't have to kid. You would never be sad to see me go. You will
celebrate it. Don't be to comfortable though. I will still stop in to say hi
once in a while. As for the GN leadership you have judged them without ever
even knowing them and that is sad. We all have the same enemy but you think
we are a part of them. It's sad that you never truly wanted to listen to
what I had to say.
>>>> I did not know Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Castro is it wrong of me to
judge them also?

IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
August 02, 2002 01:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Oh you don't have to kid. You would never be sad to see me go. You will
celebrate it. Don't be to comfortable though. I will still stop in to say hi
once in a while. As for the GN leadership you have judged them without ever
even knowing them and that is sad. We all have the same enemy but you think
we are a part of them. It's sad that you never truly wanted to listen to
what I had to say.
Magus,
Debate is healthy. I'm not celebrating.
As far as judging the GN leadership, I can find nothing on Amadeus
Rockefeller that doesn't link me to the GN website.
We know absoulutely nothing about him, and he appears to not be making
himself known.
The only thing I have said or judged Amadeus by, is that he remains an
enigma, which some people find odd coming from a person who wants to promote
a gobal government.
Can you not see why people are put off when the head guy of GN is missing
in action?
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited August 02,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
August 02, 2002 03:57 PM
Magus, when the questions asked of you are damning you stop talking. But
you are much nicer to us than Angel man.
I would have to disagree. A plan for world government with a track record of
over 100 years leaves things in its wake...I don't thing you understand who
and what you are dealing with. We all want a happy world!!!, but you don't
go to the creators of war for global peace. Magus you are the one that
doesn't understand...or maybe you do

But thanks for answering our questions, that was nice, but the tough one
are still on the table un-answered.
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Oh you don't have to kid. You would never be sad to see me go. You will
celebrate it. Don't be to comfortable though. I will still stop in to say hi
once in a while. As for the GN leadership you have judged them without ever
even knowing them and that is sad. We all have the same enemy but you think
we are a part of them. It's sad that you never truly wanted to listen to
what I had to say.
[This message has been edited by Robodoon (edited August 02, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Robodoon
Moderator
posted
August 02, 2002 07:32 PM
Real Questions .... no Answers......
I hope everyone is SEEING this for themselves.
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
August 03, 2002 01:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Magus,
Debate is healthy. I'm not celebrating.
As far as judging the GN leadership, I can find nothing on Amadeus
Rockefeller that doesn't link me to the GN website.
We know absoulutely nothing about him, and he appears to not be making
himself known.
The only thing I have said or judged Amadeus by, is that he remains an
enigma, which some people find odd coming from a person who wants to promote
a gobal government.
Can you not see why people are put off when the head guy of GN is missing
in action?
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited August 02,
2002).]
Do you still find Amadeus to be such an enigma? Even if you do not agree
with us do you now understand?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
August 03, 2002 01:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robodoon:
Real Questions .... no Answers......
I hope everyone is SEEING this for themselves.
What questions? As far as I know I have answered all of your questions.
What did I miss?
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
August 03, 2002 12:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magus:
Do you still find Amadeus to be such an enigma? Even if you do not agree
with us do you now understand?
I sent a letter to, and received a response from Amadeus.
I understand why he is in hiding now.
I would like to hear more from him though.
Any chance he might consider logging on and joining us here?
IP:
Logged
Magus
Senior Member
posted
August 03, 2002 06:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
I sent a letter to, and received a response from Amadeus.
I understand why he is in hiding now.
I would like to hear more from him though.
Any chance he might consider logging on and joining us here?
I am sure such a thing would be possible. Perhaps if a leader on this
board (such as yourself) invited him to he would be more inclined to
consider it. Then again maybe not. Worth a shot though, right?
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
August 03, 2002 07:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
I sent a letter to, and received a response from Amadeus.
I understand why he is in hiding now.
I would like to hear more from him though.
Any chance he might consider logging on and joining us here?
>>> Can you share with us why he is in hiding?
IP:
Logged
The Constitutionalist
Moderator
posted
August 04, 2002 11:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sons of Liberty:
>>> Can you share with us why he is in hiding?
Amadeus indicated in his email to me that there are threats against his
life, I believe because of his GN efforts.
Below is my correspondance with Mr. Rockefeller.
_____________________________
Dear Randy
Thank you for your enquires about me. No, you wont find much about me on the
internet anymore as much of my personal information has been removed due to
personal threats on my life and my children in the past. This has been
caused mostly due to my stance on creating a new kind of benevolent
government system to try and get mankind and the terrible direction we are
headed controlled by power hungry elites and corrupt government
administrations everywhere. Something which I and my fellowmen and women
refuse to allow to continue happening. Enough is enough. Anyhow I hope you
can understand my situation in that regard. If you have family you more than
likely will.
Professionally I am a film producer, screenwriter and politician (if you can
call that a profession!). I also head Rockefeller ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^, a
^^^^^^ and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ company in Australia. And no, my linage is not from
J.D.Rockefeller of America. I descend from the German and Norwegian lines,
though our familles do link back at some point. I am in complete opposition
to the American Rockefellers. They want a secret global dictatorship. I want
a global democracy. I am out front with it - (despite the death threats),
they hide like cowards behind close doors.
If you would like more information on Global Nation please send me an email
with your postal address. Our August edition of our Political Party
Newsletter called "Strength and Honor" is due out soon and you can have a
copy sent to you free.
Well thank you for your time and perhaps that open mind of yours may help
you to see the good guys from the bad and the brilliant and exciting future
we have under a democratic global federation government - not under a one
world secret government.
Respectfully Yours
Amadeus Rockefeller
Presiding Officer for Global Nation
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy
To: Amadeus Rockefeller
Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 4:05 AM
Subject: Greetings From America
Mr. Rockefeller,
I am currently discussing Global Nation over at the Newsmax forum.
I must admit that I am one of the critics of a global government.
However, I always keep an open mind.
Mr. Rockefeller,
I am having difficulty finding information about you on the internet.
I am interested in reading about your biographical background.
I was hoping you may be able to accommodate me with a link for me to follow
to the information, or that you may have something prepared that you may be
able to send via email to me.
Thank you for your time.
Randy
U.S.A.
[This message has been edited by The Constitutionalist (edited August 06,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Sons of Liberty
Senior Member
posted
August 04, 2002 11:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
[
>>>> If he must maintain secrecy why did he just tell us that he heads
Global Communications? Does anyone else have any trouble with this? Besides
isn't the best way to protect yourself to go out and make everyone take
notice of you?
[This message has been edited by Sons of Liberty (edited August 07,
2002).]
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 05:33 AM
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited August 05, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited August 05, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 05:54 AM
Yeah I know - now someone will say 'haha - I thought you werent going to
post anymore - your a cyber-gossip junkie as well.' Yes I am. But at least I
admit it. So up your ziggy with a whur whur brush!

quote:
]
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited August 05, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited August 05, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited August 05, 2002).]
IP:
Logged
Dongha
Administrator
posted
August 05, 2002 06:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Magus, I can't believe you let these vipers sux you back in. They don't
care about what you have to say. They just have nothing else to do with
their lives - so they sit behind a computer screen and keyboard and think
they are doing something special for the world. Nothing they can do or say
will change that. Like I may have said to you before - you should be out in
the real world promoting to real people not waisting your time on these
cyber-gossip junkies.
Did I offend anyone - I'm sorry NOT

Yeah I know - now someone will say 'haha - I thought you werent going to
post anymore - your a cyber-gossip junkie as well.' Yes I am. But at least I
admit it. So up your ziggy with a whur whur brush!

[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited August 05, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Praetorian (edited August 05, 2002).]
Your Fuhrer is calling you........
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 06:35 AM
Oh how typical. See what I mean. A stupid one liner. See what small
pathetic small minds you have.
quote:
Originally posted by Dongha:
Your Fuhrer is calling you........
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 06:51 AM
Here's something far more interesting to read:
Genesis
1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon
the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and
fro over the surface of the waters.
3 And God proceeded to say: "Let light come to be." Then there came to be
light. 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God brought about a
division between the light and the darkness. 5 And God began calling the
light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening
and there came to be morning, a first day.
6 And God went on to say: "Let an expanse come to be in between the waters
and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters." 7 Then God
proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that
should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the
expanse. And it came to be so. 8 And God began to call the expanse Heaven.
And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.
9 And God went on to say: "Let the waters under the heavens be brought
together into one place and let the dry land appear." And it came to be so.
10 And God began calling the dry land Earth, but the bringing together of
the waters he called Seas. Further, God saw that [it was] good. 11 And God
went on to say: "Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation
bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed
of which is in it, upon the earth." And it came to be so. 12 And the earth
began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and
trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in it according to its kind. Then
God saw that [it was] good. 13 And there came to be evening and there came
to be morning, a third day.
14 And God went on to say: "Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the
heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must
serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. 15 And they must
serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth."
And it came to be so. 16 And God proceeded to make the two great luminaries,
the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for
dominating the night, and also the stars. 17 Thus God put them in the
expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, 18 and to dominate by day
and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then
God saw that [it was] good. 19 And there came to be evening and there came
to be morning, a fourth day.
20 And God went on to say: "Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living
souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the
expanse of the heavens." 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea
monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed
forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according
to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed
them, saying: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea
basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth." 23 And there
came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.
24 And God went on to say: "Let the earth put forth living souls according
to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the
earth according to its kind." And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to
make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic
animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according
to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.
26 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our
likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying
creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and
every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to
create the man in his image, in God's image he created him; male and female
he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be
fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in
subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and
every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing
seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which
there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30
And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the
heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a
soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good.
And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.
2 Thus the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their
completion. 2 And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work
that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his
work that he had made. 3 And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make
it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has
created for the purpose of making.
4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being
created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.
5 Now there was as yet no bush of the field found in the earth and no
vegetation of the field was as yet sprouting, because Jehovah God had not
made it rain upon the earth and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6
But a mist would go up from the earth and it watered the entire surface of
the ground.
7 And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and
to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a
living soul. 8 Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in E'den, toward the
east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made
to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one's sight and good for
food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of
the knowledge of good and bad.
10 Now there was a river issuing out of E'den to water the garden, and from
there it began to be parted and it became, as it were, four heads. 11 The
first one's name is Pi'shon; it is the one encircling the entire land of
Hav'i·lah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. There
also are the bdellium gum and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second
river is Gi'hon; it is the one encircling the entire land of Cush. 14 And
the name of the third river is Hid'de·kel; it is the one going to the east
of As·syr'i·a. And the fourth river is the Eu·phra'tes.
15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of
E'den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid
this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to
satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you
must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively
die."
18 And Jehovah God went on to say: "It is not good for the man to continue
by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him." 19
Now Jehovah God was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field
and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the
man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call it,
each living soul, that was its name. 20 So the man was calling the names of
all the domestic animals and of the flying creatures of the heavens and of
every wild beast of the field, but for man there was found no helper as a
complement of him. 21 Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man
and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the
flesh over its place. 22 And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he
had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man.
23 Then the man said:
"This is at last bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh.
This one will be called Woman,
Because from man this one was taken."
24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick
to his wife and they must become one flesh. 25 And both of them continued to
be naked, the man and his wife, and yet they did not become ashamed.
3 Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of
the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: "Is it
really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?" 2
At this the woman said to the serpent: "Of the fruit of the trees of the
garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in
the middle of the garden, God has said, 'YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU
must not touch it that YOU do not die.'" 4 At this the serpent said to the
woman: "YOU positively will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day of
YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be
like God, KNOWING good and bad."
6 Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was
something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look
upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave
some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it. 7 Then the
eyes of both of them became opened and they began to realize that they were
naked. Hence they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for
themselves.
8 Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God walking in the garden about the
breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife went into hiding from the
face of Jehovah God in between the trees of the garden. 9 And Jehovah God
kept calling to the man and saying to him: "Where are you?" 10 Finally he
said: "Your voice I heard in the garden, but I was afraid because I was
naked and so I hid myself." 11 At that he said: "Who told you that you were
naked? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?"
12 And the man went on to say: "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she
gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate." 13 With that Jehovah God said
to the woman: "What is this you have done?" To this the woman replied: "The
serpent-it deceived me and so I ate."
14 And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: "Because you have done
this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out
of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is
what you will eat all the days of your life. 15 And I shall put enmity
between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise
you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel."
16 To the woman he said: "I shall greatly increase the pain of your
pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your craving
will be for your husband, and he will dominate you."
17 And to Adam he said: "Because you listened to your wife's voice and took
to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, 'You must
not eat from it,' cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat
its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will
grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat
of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of
it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."
20 After this Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she had to become the
mother of everyone living. 21 And Jehovah God proceeded to make long
garments of skin for Adam and for his wife and to clothe them. 22 And
Jehovah God went on to say: "Here the man has become like one of us in
knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and
actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time
indefinite,-" 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E'den to
cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 And so he drove the
man out and posted at the east of the garden of E'den the cherubs and the
flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the
way to the tree of life.
4 Now Adam had intercourse with Eve his wife and she became pregnant. In
time she gave birth to Cain and said: "I have produced a man with the aid of
Jehovah." 2 Later she again gave birth, to his brother Abel.
And Abel came to be a herder of sheep, but Cain became a cultivator of the
ground. 3 And it came about at the expiration of some time that Cain
proceeded to bring some fruits of the ground as an offering to Jehovah. 4
But as for Abel, he too brought some firstlings of his flock, even their
fatty pieces. Now while Jehovah was looking with favor upon Abel and his
offering, 5 he did not look with any favor upon Cain and upon his offering.
And Cain grew hot with great anger, and his countenance began to fall. 6 At
this Jehovah said to Cain: "Why are you hot with anger and why has your
countenance fallen? 7 If you turn to doing good, will there not be an
exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at
the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get
the mastery over it?"
8 After that Cain said to Abel his brother: ["Let us go over into the
field."] So it came about that while they were in the field Cain proceeded
to assault Abel his brother and kill him. 9 Later on Jehovah said to Cain:
"Where is Abel your brother?" and he said: "I do not know. Am I my brother's
guardian?" 10 At this he said: "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's
blood is crying out to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed in
banishment from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your
brother's blood at your hand. 12 When you cultivate the ground, it will not
give you back its power. A wanderer and a fugitive you will become in the
earth." 13 At this Cain said to Jehovah: "My punishment for error is too
great to carry. 14 Here you are actually driving me this day from off the
surface of the ground, and from your face I shall be concealed; and I must
become a wanderer and fugitive on the earth, and it is certain that anyone
finding me will kill me." 15 At this Jehovah said to him: "For that reason
anyone killing Cain must suffer vengeance seven times."
And so Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him
should strike him. 16 With that Cain went away from the face of Jehovah and
took up residence in the land of Fugitiveness to the east of E'den.
17 Afterward Cain had intercourse with his wife and she became pregnant and
gave birth to E'noch. Then he engaged in building a city and called the
city's name by the name of his son E'noch. 18 Later there was born to E'noch
I'rad. And I'rad became father to Me·hu'ja·el, and Me·hu'ja·el became father
to Me·thu'sha·el, and Me·thu'sha·el became father to La'mech.
19 And La'mech proceeded to take two wives for himself. The name of the
first was A'dah and the name of the second was Zil'lah. 20 In time A'dah
gave birth to Ja'bal. He proved to be the founder of those who dwell in
tents and have livestock. 21 And the name of his brother was Ju'bal. He
proved to be the founder of all those who handle the harp and the pipe. 22
As for Zil'lah, she too gave birth to Tu'bal-cain, the forger of every sort
of tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tu'bal-cain was Na'a·mah. 23
Consequently La'mech composed these words for his wives A'dah and Zil'lah:
"Hear my voice, you wives of La'mech;
Give ear to my saying:
A man I have killed for wounding me,
Yes, a young man for giving me a blow.
24 If seven times Cain is to be avenged,
Then La'mech seventy times and seven."
25 And Adam proceeded to have intercourse again with his wife and so she
gave birth to a son and called his name Seth, because, as she said: "God has
appointed another seed in place of Abel, because Cain killed him." 26 And to
Seth also there was born a son and he proceeded to call his name E'nosh. At
that time a start was made of calling on the name of Jehovah.
5 This is the book of Adam's history. In the day of God's creating Adam he
made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them. After
that he blessed them and called their name Man in the day of their being
created.
3 And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to
a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. 4 And the
days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years.
Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam
that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
quote:
Originally posted by Dongha:
Your Fuhrer is calling you........
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 06:54 AM
And some more:
6 And Seth lived on for a hundred and five years. Then he became father
to E'nosh. 7 And after his fathering E'nosh Seth continued to live eight
hundred and seven years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 8
So all the days of Seth amounted to nine hundred and twelve years and he
died.
9 And E'nosh lived on for ninety years. Then he became father to Ke'nan. 10
And after his fathering Ke'nan E'nosh continued to live eight hundred and
fifteen years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 11 So all
the days of E'nosh amounted to nine hundred and five years and he died.
12 And Ke'nan lived on for seventy years. Then he became father to
Ma·hal'a·lel. 13 And after his fathering Ma·hal'a·lel Ke'nan continued to
live eight hundred and forty years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and
daughters. 14 So all the days of Ke'nan amounted to nine hundred and ten
years and he died.
15 And Ma·hal'a·lel lived on for sixty-five years. Then he became father to
Ja'red. 16 And after his fathering Ja'red Ma·hal'a·lel continued to live
eight hundred and thirty years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and
daughters. 17 So all the days of Ma·hal'a·lel amounted to eight hundred and
ninety-five years and he died.
18 And Ja'red lived on for a hundred and sixty-two years. Then he became
father to E'noch. 19 And after his fathering E'noch Ja'red continued to live
eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 20 So
all the days of Ja'red amounted to nine hundred and sixty-two years and he
died.
21 And E'noch lived on for sixty-five years. Then he became father to
Me·thu'se·lah. 22 And after his fathering Me·thu'se·lah E'noch went on
walking with the [true] God three hundred years. Meanwhile he became father
to sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of E'noch amounted to three
hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And E'noch kept walking with the [true]
God. Then he was no more, for God took him.
25 And Me·thu'se·lah lived on for a hundred and eighty-seven years. Then he
became father to La'mech. 26 And after his fathering La'mech Me·thu'se·lah
continued to live seven hundred and eighty-two years. Meanwhile he became
father to sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Me·thu'se·lah amounted
to nine hundred and sixty-nine years and he died.
28 And La'mech lived on for a hundred and eighty-two years. Then he became
father to a son. 29 And he proceeded to call his name Noah, saying: "This
one will bring us comfort from our work and from the pain of our hands
resulting from the ground which Jehovah has cursed." 30 And after his
fathering Noah La'mech continued to live five hundred and ninety-five years.
Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of
La'mech amounted to seven hundred and seventy-seven years and he died.
32 And Noah got to be five hundred years old. After that Noah became father
to Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth.
6 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface
of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true]
God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and
they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. 3 After
that Jehovah said: "My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that
he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty
years."
4 The Neph'i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after
that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the
daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who
were of old, the men of fame.
5 Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth
and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the
time. 6 And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he
felt hurt at his heart. 7 So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I
have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to
moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret
that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah.
9 This is the history of Noah.
Noah was a righteous man. He proved himself faultless among his
contemporaries. Noah walked with the [true] God. 10 In time Noah became
father to three sons, Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth. 11 And the earth came to be
ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with
violence. 12 So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all
flesh had ruined its way on the earth.
13 After that God said to Noah: "The end of all flesh has come before me,
because the earth is full of violence as a result of them; and here I am
bringing them to ruin together with the earth. 14 Make for yourself an ark
out of wood of a resinous tree. You will make compartments in the ark, and
you must cover it inside and outside with tar. 15 And this is how you will
make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width,
and thirty cubits its height. 16 You will make a tso'har [roof; or, window]
for the ark, and you will complete it to the extent of a cubit upward, and
the entrance of the ark you will put in its side; you will make it with a
lower [story], a second [story] and a third [story].
17 "And as for me, here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to
bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the
heavens. Everything that is in the earth will expire. 18 And I do establish
my covenant with you; and you must go into the ark, you and your sons and
your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 And of every living creature of
every sort of flesh, two of each, you will bring into the ark to preserve
them alive with you. Male and female they will be. 20 Of the flying
creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to
their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds,
two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive. 21 And as for
you, take for yourself every sort of food that is eaten; and you must gather
it to yourself, and it must serve as food for you and for them."
22 And Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He
did just so.
7 After that Jehovah said to Noah: "Go, you and all your household, into the
ark, because you are the one I have seen to be righteous before me among
this generation. 2 Of every clean beast you must take to yourself by sevens,
the sire and its mate; and of every beast that is not clean just two, the
sire and its mate; 3 also of the flying creatures of the heavens by sevens,
male and female, to preserve offspring alive on the surface of the entire
earth. 4 For in just seven days more I am making it rain upon the earth
forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe every existing thing that I
have made off the surface of the ground." 5 And Noah proceeded to do
according to all that Jehovah had commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge of waters occurred on
the earth. 7 So Noah went in, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives
with him, into the ark ahead of the waters of the deluge. 8 Of every clean
beast and of every beast that is not clean and of the flying creatures and
everything that moves on the ground, 9 they went in by twos to Noah inside
the ark, male and female, just as God had commanded Noah. 10 And seven days
later it turned out that the waters of the deluge came upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the
seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery
deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And
the downpour upon the earth went on for forty days and forty nights. 13 On
this very day Noah went in, and Shem and Ham and Ja'pheth, Noah's sons, and
the wife of Noah and the three wives of his sons with him, into the ark; 14
they and every wild beast according to its kind, and every domestic animal
according to its kind, and every moving animal that moves on the earth
according to its kind, and every flying creature according to its kind,
every bird, every winged creature. 15 And they kept going to Noah inside the
ark, two by two, of every sort of flesh in which the force of life was
active. 16 And those going in, male and female of every sort of flesh, went
in, just as God had commanded him. After that Jehovah shut the door behind
him.
17 And the deluge went on for forty days upon the earth, and the waters kept
increasing and began carrying the ark and it was floating high above the
earth. 18 And the waters became overwhelming and kept increasing greatly
upon the earth, but the ark kept going on the surface of the waters. 19 And
the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that
were under the whole heavens came to be covered. 20 Up to fifteen cubits the
waters overwhelmed them and the mountains became covered.
21 So all flesh that was moving upon the earth expired, among the flying
creatures and among the domestic animals and among the wild beasts and among
all the swarms that were swarming upon the earth, and all mankind. 22
Everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its
nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died. 23 Thus he wiped
out every existing thing that was on the surface of the ground, from man to
beast, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, and they were
wiped off the earth; and only Noah and those who were with him in the ark
kept on surviving. 24 And the waters continued overwhelming the earth a
hundred and fifty days.
8 After that God remembered Noah and every wild beast and every domestic
animal that was with him in the ark, and God caused a wind to pass over the
earth, and the waters began to subside. 2 And the springs of the watery deep
and the floodgates of the heavens became stopped up, and so the downpour
from the heavens was restrained. 3 And the waters began receding from off
the earth, progressively receding; and at the end of a hundred and fifty
days the waters were lacking. 4 And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth
day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar'a·rat. 5 And
the waters kept on progressively lessening until the tenth month. In the
tenth month, on the first of the month, the tops of the mountains appeared.
6 So it occurred that at the end of forty days Noah proceeded to open the
window of the ark that he had made. 7 After that he sent out a raven, and it
continued flying outdoors, going and returning, until the waters dried off
the earth.
8 Later he sent out from him a dove to see whether the waters had abated
from the surface of the ground. 9 And the dove did not find any
resting-place for the sole of its foot, and so it returned to him into the
ark because the waters were yet upon the surface of the whole earth. At that
he put his hand out and took it and brought it to himself inside the ark. 10
And he went on waiting still another seven days, and once again he sent out
the dove from the ark. 11 Later on the dove came to him about the time of
evening and, look! there was an olive leaf freshly plucked in its bill, and
so Noah got to know that the waters had abated from the earth. 12 And he
went on waiting still another seven days. Then he sent out the dove, but it
did not come back again to him anymore.
13 Now in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first
day of the month, it came about that the waters had drained from off the
earth; and Noah proceeded to remove the covering of the ark and to look, and
here the surface of the ground had drained dry. 14 And in the second month,
on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth had dried off.
15 God now spoke to Noah, saying: 16 "Go out of the ark, you and your wife
and your sons and your sons' wives with you. 17 Every living creature that
is with you of every sort of flesh, among the flying creatures and among the
beasts and among all the moving animals that move upon the earth, bring out
with you, as they must swarm in the earth and be fruitful and become many
upon the earth."
18 At that Noah went out, and also his sons and his wife and his sons' wives
with him. 19 Every living creature, every moving animal and every flying
creature, everything that moves on the earth, according to their families
they went out of the ark. 20 And Noah began to build an altar to Jehovah and
to take some of all the clean beasts and of all the clean flying creatures
and to offer burnt offerings upon the altar. 21 And Jehovah began to smell a
restful odor, and so Jehovah said in his heart: "Never again shall I call
down evil upon the ground on man's account, because the inclination of the
heart of man is bad from his youth up; and never again shall I deal every
living thing a blow just as I have done. 22 For all the days the earth
continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and
winter, and day and night, will never cease."
9 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be
fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a
terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon
every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on
the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now
given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in
the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its
soul-its blood-YOU must not eat. 5 And, besides that, YOUR blood of YOUR
souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask
it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his
brother, shall I ask back the soul of man. 6 Anyone shedding man's blood, by
man will his own blood be shed, for in God's image he made man. 7 And as for
YOU men, be fruitful and become many, make the earth swarm with YOU and
become many in it."
8 And God went on to say to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "And as for me,
here I am establishing my covenant with YOU men and with YOUR offspring
after YOU, 10 and with every living soul that is with YOU, among fowls,
among beasts and among all living creatures of the earth with YOU, from all
those going out of the ark to every living creature of the earth. 11 Yes, I
do establish my covenant with YOU: No more will all flesh be cut off by
waters of a deluge, and no more will there occur a deluge to bring the earth
to ruin."
12 And God added: "This is the sign of the covenant that I am giving between
me and YOU and every living soul that is with YOU, for the generations to
time indefinite. 13 My rainbow I do give in the cloud, and it must serve as
a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 And it shall occur that
when I bring a cloud over the earth, then the rainbow will certainly appear
in the cloud. 15 And I shall certainly remember my covenant which is between
me and YOU and every living soul among all flesh; and no more will the
waters become a deluge to bring all flesh to ruin. 16 And the rainbow must
occur in the cloud, and I shall certainly see it to remember the covenant to
time indefinite between God and every living soul among all flesh that is
upon the earth."
17 And God repeated to Noah: "This is the sign of the covenant that I do
establish between me and all flesh that is upon the earth."
18 And Noah's sons who came out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Ja'pheth.
Later Ham was the father of Ca'naan. 19 These three were Noah's sons, and
from these was all the earth's population spread abroad.
20 Now Noah started off as a farmer and proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21
And he began drinking of the wine and became intoxicated, and so he
uncovered himself in the midst of his tent. 22 Later Ham the father of
Ca'naan saw his father's nakedness and went telling it to his two brothers
outside. 23 At that Shem and Ja'pheth took a mantle and put it upon both
their shoulders and walked in backwards. Thus they covered their father's
nakedness, while their faces were turned away, and they did not see their
father's nakedness.
24 Finally Noah awoke from his wine and got to know what his youngest son
had done to him. 25 At this he said:
"Cursed be Ca'naan.
Let him become the lowest slave to his brothers."
26 And he added:
"Blessed be Jehovah, Shem's God,
And let Ca'naan become a slave to him.
27 Let God grant ample space to Ja'pheth,
And let him reside in the tents of Shem.
Let Ca'naan become a slave to him also."
28 And Noah continued to live three hundred and fifty years after the
deluge. 29 So all the days of Noah amounted to nine hundred and fifty years
and he died.
10 And this is the history of Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth.
Now sons began to be born to them after the deluge. 2 The sons of Ja'pheth
were Go'mer and Ma'gog and Ma'da·i and Ja'van and Tu'bal and Me'shech and
Ti'ras.
3 And the sons of Go'mer were Ash'ke·naz and Ri'phath and To·gar'mah.
4 And the sons of Ja'van were E·li'shah and Tar'shish, Kit'tim and Do'da·nim.
5 From these the population of the isles of the nations was spread about in
their lands, each according to its tongue, according to their families, by
their nations.
6 And the sons of Ham were Cush and Miz'ra·im and Put and Ca'naan.
7 And the sons of Cush were Se'ba and Hav'i·lah and Sab'tah and Ra'a·mah and
Sab'te·ca.
And the sons of Ra'a·mah were She'ba and De'dan.
8 And Cush became father to Nim'rod. He made the start in becoming a mighty
one in the earth. 9 He displayed himself a mighty hunter in opposition to
Jehovah. That is why there is a saying: "Just like Nim'rod a mighty hunter
in opposition to Jehovah." 10 And the beginning of his kingdom came to be
Ba'bel and E'rech and Ac'cad and Cal'neh, in the land of Shi'nar. 11 Out of
that land he went forth into As·syr'i·a and set himself to building
Nin'e·veh and Re·ho'both-Ir and Ca'lah 12 and Re'sen between Nin'e·veh and
Ca'lah: this is the great city.
13 And Miz'ra·im became father to Lu'dim and An'a·mim and Le·ha'bim and
Naph·tu'him 14 and Path·ru'sim and Cas·lu'him (from among whom the
Phi·lis'tines went forth) and Caph'to·rim.
15 And Ca'naan became father to Si'don his firstborn and Heth 16 and the
Jeb'u·site and the Am'or·ite and the Gir'ga·shite 17 and the Hi'vite and the
Ark'ite and the Si'nite 18 and the Ar'vad·ite and the Zem'a·rite and the
Ha'math·ite; and afterward the families of the Ca'naan·ite were scattered.
19 So the boundary of the Ca'naan·ite came to be from Si'don as far as
Ge'rar, near Ga'za, as far as Sod'om and Go·mor'rah and Ad'mah and Ze·boi'im,
near La'sha. 20 These were the sons of Ham according to their families,
according to their tongues, in their lands, by their nations.
21 And to Shem, the forefather of all the sons of E'ber, the brother of
Ja'pheth the oldest, there was also progeny born. 22 The sons of Shem were
E'lam and As'shur and Ar·pach'shad and Lud and A'ram.
23 And the sons of A'ram were Uz and Hul and Ge'ther and Mash.
24 And Ar·pach'shad became father to She'lah, and She'lah became father to
E'ber.
25 And to E'ber there were two sons born. The name of the one was Pe'leg,
because in his days the earth was divided; and the name of his brother was
Jok'tan.
26 And Jok'tan became father to Al·mo'dad and She'leph and Ha·zar·ma'veth
and Je'rah 27 and Ha·do'ram and U'zal and Dik'lah 28 and O'bal and
A·bim'a·el and She'ba 29 and O'phir and Hav'i·lah and Jo'bab; all these were
the sons of Jok'tan.
30 And their place of dwelling came to extend from Me'sha as far as Se'phar,
the mountainous region of the East.
31 These were the sons of Shem according to their families, according to
their tongues, in their lands, according to their nations.
32 These were the families of the sons of Noah according to their family
descents, by their nations, and from these the nations were spread about in
the earth after the deluge.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 06:55 AM
and again ...
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Here's something far more interesting to read:
Genesis
1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon
the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and
fro over the surface of the waters.
3 And God proceeded to say: "Let light come to be." Then there came to be
light. 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God brought about a
division between the light and the darkness. 5 And God began calling the
light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening
and there came to be morning, a first day.
6 And God went on to say: "Let an expanse come to be in between the waters
and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters." 7 Then God
proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that
should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the
expanse. And it came to be so. 8 And God began to call the expanse Heaven.
And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.
9 And God went on to say: "Let the waters under the heavens be brought
together into one place and let the dry land appear." And it came to be so.
10 And God began calling the dry land Earth, but the bringing together of
the waters he called Seas. Further, God saw that [it was] good. 11 And God
went on to say: "Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation
bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed
of which is in it, upon the earth." And it came to be so. 12 And the earth
began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and
trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in it according to its kind. Then
God saw that [it was] good. 13 And there came to be evening and there came
to be morning, a third day.
14 And God went on to say: "Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the
heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must
serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. 15 And they must
serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth."
And it came to be so. 16 And God proceeded to make the two great luminaries,
the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for
dominating the night, and also the stars. 17 Thus God put them in the
expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, 18 and to dominate by day
and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then
God saw that [it was] good. 19 And there came to be evening and there came
to be morning, a fourth day.
20 And God went on to say: "Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living
souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the
expanse of the heavens." 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea
monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed
forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according
to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed
them, saying: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea
basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth." 23 And there
came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.
24 And God went on to say: "Let the earth put forth living souls according
to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the
earth according to its kind." And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to
make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic
animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according
to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.
26 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our
likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying
creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and
every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to
create the man in his image, in God's image he created him; male and female
he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be
fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in
subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and
every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing
seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which
there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30
And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the
heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a
soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good.
And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.
2 Thus the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their
completion. 2 And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work
that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his
work that he had made. 3 And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make
it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has
created for the purpose of making.
4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being
created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.
5 Now there was as yet no bush of the field found in the earth and no
vegetation of the field was as yet sprouting, because Jehovah God had not
made it rain upon the earth and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6
But a mist would go up from the earth and it watered the entire surface of
the ground.
7 And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and
to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a
living soul. 8 Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in E'den, toward the
east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made
to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one's sight and good for
food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of
the knowledge of good and bad.
10 Now there was a river issuing out of E'den to water the garden, and from
there it began to be parted and it became, as it were, four heads. 11 The
first one's name is Pi'shon; it is the one encircling the entire land of
Hav'i·lah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. There
also are the bdellium gum and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second
river is Gi'hon; it is the one encircling the entire land of Cush. 14 And
the name of the third river is Hid'de·kel; it is the one going to the east
of As·syr'i·a. And the fourth river is the Eu·phra'tes.
15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of
E'den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid
this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to
satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you
must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively
die."
18 And Jehovah God went on to say: "It is not good for the man to continue
by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him." 19
Now Jehovah God was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field
and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the
man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call it,
each living soul, that was its name. 20 So the man was calling the names of
all the domestic animals and of the flying creatures of the heavens and of
every wild beast of the field, but for man there was found no helper as a
complement of him. 21 Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man
and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the
flesh over its place. 22 And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he
had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man.
23 Then the man said:
"This is at last bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh.
This one will be called Woman,
Because from man this one was taken."
24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick
to his wife and they must become one flesh. 25 And both of them continued to
be naked, the man and his wife, and yet they did not become ashamed.
3 Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of
the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: "Is it
really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?" 2
At this the woman said to the serpent: "Of the fruit of the trees of the
garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in
the middle of the garden, God has said, 'YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU
must not touch it that YOU do not die.'" 4 At this the serpent said to the
woman: "YOU positively will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day of
YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be
like God, KNOWING good and bad."
6 Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was
something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look
upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave
some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it. 7 Then the
eyes of both of them became opened and they began to realize that they were
naked. Hence they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for
themselves.
8 Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God walking in the garden about the
breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife went into hiding from the
face of Jehovah God in between the trees of the garden. 9 And Jehovah God
kept calling to the man and saying to him: "Where are you?" 10 Finally he
said: "Your voice I heard in the garden, but I was afraid because I was
naked and so I hid myself." 11 At that he said: "Who told you that you were
naked? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?"
12 And the man went on to say: "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she
gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate." 13 With that Jehovah God said
to the woman: "What is this you have done?" To this the woman replied: "The
serpent-it deceived me and so I ate."
14 And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: "Because you have done
this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out
of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is
what you will eat all the days of your life. 15 And I shall put enmity
between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise
you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel."
16 To the woman he said: "I shall greatly increase the pain of your
pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your craving
will be for your husband, and he will dominate you."
17 And to Adam he said: "Because you listened to your wife's voice and took
to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, 'You must
not eat from it,' cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat
its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will
grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat
of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of
it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."
20 After this Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she had to become the
mother of everyone living. 21 And Jehovah God proceeded to make long
garments of skin for Adam and for his wife and to clothe them. 22 And
Jehovah God went on to say: "Here the man has become like one of us in
knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and
actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time
indefinite,-" 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E'den to
cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 And so he drove the
man out and posted at the east of the garden of E'den the cherubs and the
flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the
way to the tree of life.
4 Now Adam had intercourse with Eve his wife and she became pregnant. In
time she gave birth to Cain and said: "I have produced a man with the aid of
Jehovah." 2 Later she again gave birth, to his brother Abel.
And Abel came to be a herder of sheep, but Cain became a cultivator of the
ground. 3 And it came about at the expiration of some time that Cain
proceeded to bring some fruits of the ground as an offering to Jehovah. 4
But as for Abel, he too brought some firstlings of his flock, even their
fatty pieces. Now while Jehovah was looking with favor upon Abel and his
offering, 5 he did not look with any favor upon Cain and upon his offering.
And Cain grew hot with great anger, and his countenance began to fall. 6 At
this Jehovah said to Cain: "Why are you hot with anger and why has your
countenance fallen? 7 If you turn to doing good, will there not be an
exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at
the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get
the mastery over it?"
8 After that Cain said to Abel his brother: ["Let us go over into the
field."] So it came about that while they were in the field Cain proceeded
to assault Abel his brother and kill him. 9 Later on Jehovah said to Cain:
"Where is Abel your brother?" and he said: "I do not know. Am I my brother's
guardian?" 10 At this he said: "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's
blood is crying out to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed in
banishment from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your
brother's blood at your hand. 12 When you cultivate the ground, it will not
give you back its power. A wanderer and a fugitive you will become in the
earth." 13 At this Cain said to Jehovah: "My punishment for error is too
great to carry. 14 Here you are actually driving me this day from off the
surface of the ground, and from your face I shall be concealed; and I must
become a wanderer and fugitive on the earth, and it is certain that anyone
finding me will kill me." 15 At this Jehovah said to him: "For that reason
anyone killing Cain must suffer vengeance seven times."
And so Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him
should strike him. 16 With that Cain went away from the face of Jehovah and
took up residence in the land of Fugitiveness to the east of E'den.
17 Afterward Cain had intercourse with his wife and she became pregnant and
gave birth to E'noch. Then he engaged in building a city and called the
city's name by the name of his son E'noch. 18 Later there was born to E'noch
I'rad. And I'rad became father to Me·hu'ja·el, and Me·hu'ja·el became father
to Me·thu'sha·el, and Me·thu'sha·el became father to La'mech.
19 And La'mech proceeded to take two wives for himself. The name of the
first was A'dah and the name of the second was Zil'lah. 20 In time A'dah
gave birth to Ja'bal. He proved to be the founder of those who dwell in
tents and have livestock. 21 And the name of his brother was Ju'bal. He
proved to be the founder of all those who handle the harp and the pipe. 22
As for Zil'lah, she too gave birth to Tu'bal-cain, the forger of every sort
of tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tu'bal-cain was Na'a·mah. 23
Consequently La'mech composed these words for his wives A'dah and Zil'lah:
"Hear my voice, you wives of La'mech;
Give ear to my saying:
A man I have killed for wounding me,
Yes, a young man for giving me a blow.
24 If seven times Cain is to be avenged,
Then La'mech seventy times and seven."
25 And Adam proceeded to have intercourse again with his wife and so she
gave birth to a son and called his name Seth, because, as she said: "God has
appointed another seed in place of Abel, because Cain killed him." 26 And to
Seth also there was born a son and he proceeded to call his name E'nosh. At
that time a start was made of calling on the name of Jehovah.
5 This is the book of Adam's history. In the day of God's creating Adam he
made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them. After
that he blessed them and called their name Man in the day of their being
created.
3 And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to
a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. 4 And the
days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years.
Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam
that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 06:58 AM
and again ... hehe ...
6 And Seth lived on for a hundred and five years. Then he became father
to E'nosh. 7 And after his fathering E'nosh Seth continued to live eight
hundred and seven years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 8
So all the days of Seth amounted to nine hundred and twelve years and he
died.
9 And E'nosh lived on for ninety years. Then he became father to Ke'nan. 10
And after his fathering Ke'nan E'nosh continued to live eight hundred and
fifteen years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 11 So all
the days of E'nosh amounted to nine hundred and five years and he died.
12 And Ke'nan lived on for seventy years. Then he became father to
Ma·hal'a·lel. 13 And after his fathering Ma·hal'a·lel Ke'nan continued to
live eight hundred and forty years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and
daughters. 14 So all the days of Ke'nan amounted to nine hundred and ten
years and he died.
15 And Ma·hal'a·lel lived on for sixty-five years. Then he became father to
Ja'red. 16 And after his fathering Ja'red Ma·hal'a·lel continued to live
eight hundred and thirty years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and
daughters. 17 So all the days of Ma·hal'a·lel amounted to eight hundred and
ninety-five years and he died.
18 And Ja'red lived on for a hundred and sixty-two years. Then he became
father to E'noch. 19 And after his fathering E'noch Ja'red continued to live
eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 20 So
all the days of Ja'red amounted to nine hundred and sixty-two years and he
died.
21 And E'noch lived on for sixty-five years. Then he became father to
Me·thu'se·lah. 22 And after his fathering Me·thu'se·lah E'noch went on
walking with the [true] God three hundred years. Meanwhile he became father
to sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of E'noch amounted to three
hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And E'noch kept walking with the [true]
God. Then he was no more, for God took him.
25 And Me·thu'se·lah lived on for a hundred and eighty-seven years. Then he
became father to La'mech. 26 And after his fathering La'mech Me·thu'se·lah
continued to live seven hundred and eighty-two years. Meanwhile he became
father to sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Me·thu'se·lah amounted
to nine hundred and sixty-nine years and he died.
28 And La'mech lived on for a hundred and eighty-two years. Then he became
father to a son. 29 And he proceeded to call his name Noah, saying: "This
one will bring us comfort from our work and from the pain of our hands
resulting from the ground which Jehovah has cursed." 30 And after his
fathering Noah La'mech continued to live five hundred and ninety-five years.
Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of
La'mech amounted to seven hundred and seventy-seven years and he died.
32 And Noah got to be five hundred years old. After that Noah became father
to Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth.
6 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface
of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true]
God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and
they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. 3 After
that Jehovah said: "My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that
he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty
years."
4 The Neph'i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after
that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the
daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who
were of old, the men of fame.
5 Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth
and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the
time. 6 And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he
felt hurt at his heart. 7 So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I
have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to
moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret
that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah.
9 This is the history of Noah.
Noah was a righteous man. He proved himself faultless among his
contemporaries. Noah walked with the [true] God. 10 In time Noah became
father to three sons, Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth. 11 And the earth came to be
ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with
violence. 12 So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all
flesh had ruined its way on the earth.
13 After that God said to Noah: "The end of all flesh has come before me,
because the earth is full of violence as a result of them; and here I am
bringing them to ruin together with the earth. 14 Make for yourself an ark
out of wood of a resinous tree. You will make compartments in the ark, and
you must cover it inside and outside with tar. 15 And this is how you will
make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width,
and thirty cubits its height. 16 You will make a tso'har [roof; or, window]
for the ark, and you will complete it to the extent of a cubit upward, and
the entrance of the ark you will put in its side; you will make it with a
lower [story], a second [story] and a third [story].
17 "And as for me, here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to
bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the
heavens. Everything that is in the earth will expire. 18 And I do establish
my covenant with you; and you must go into the ark, you and your sons and
your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 And of every living creature of
every sort of flesh, two of each, you will bring into the ark to preserve
them alive with you. Male and female they will be. 20 Of the flying
creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to
their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds,
two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive. 21 And as for
you, take for yourself every sort of food that is eaten; and you must gather
it to yourself, and it must serve as food for you and for them."
22 And Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He
did just so.
7 After that Jehovah said to Noah: "Go, you and all your household, into the
ark, because you are the one I have seen to be righteous before me among
this generation. 2 Of every clean beast you must take to yourself by sevens,
the sire and its mate; and of every beast that is not clean just two, the
sire and its mate; 3 also of the flying creatures of the heavens by sevens,
male and female, to preserve offspring alive on the surface of the entire
earth. 4 For in just seven days more I am making it rain upon the earth
forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe every existing thing that I
have made off the surface of the ground." 5 And Noah proceeded to do
according to all that Jehovah had commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge of waters occurred on
the earth. 7 So Noah went in, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives
with him, into the ark ahead of the waters of the deluge. 8 Of every clean
beast and of every beast that is not clean and of the flying creatures and
everything that moves on the ground, 9 they went in by twos to Noah inside
the ark, male and female, just as God had commanded Noah. 10 And seven days
later it turned out that the waters of the deluge came upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the
seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery
deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And
the downpour upon the earth went on for forty days and forty nights. 13 On
this very day Noah went in, and Shem and Ham and Ja'pheth, Noah's sons, and
the wife of Noah and the three wives of his sons with him, into the ark; 14
they and every wild beast according to its kind, and every domestic animal
according to its kind, and every moving animal that moves on the earth
according to its kind, and every flying creature according to its kind,
every bird, every winged creature. 15 And they kept going to Noah inside the
ark, two by two, of every sort of flesh in which the force of life was
active. 16 And those going in, male and female of every sort of flesh, went
in, just as God had commanded him. After that Jehovah shut the door behind
him.
17 And the deluge went on for forty days upon the earth, and the waters kept
increasing and began carrying the ark and it was floating high above the
earth. 18 And the waters became overwhelming and kept increasing greatly
upon the earth, but the ark kept going on the surface of the waters. 19 And
the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that
were under the whole heavens came to be covered. 20 Up to fifteen cubits the
waters overwhelmed them and the mountains became covered.
21 So all flesh that was moving upon the earth expired, among the flying
creatures and among the domestic animals and among the wild beasts and among
all the swarms that were swarming upon the earth, and all mankind. 22
Everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its
nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died. 23 Thus he wiped
out every existing thing that was on the surface of the ground, from man to
beast, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, and they were
wiped off the earth; and only Noah and those who were with him in the ark
kept on surviving. 24 And the waters continued overwhelming the earth a
hundred and fifty days.
8 After that God remembered Noah and every wild beast and every domestic
animal that was with him in the ark, and God caused a wind to pass over the
earth, and the waters began to subside. 2 And the springs of the watery deep
and the floodgates of the heavens became stopped up, and so the downpour
from the heavens was restrained. 3 And the waters began receding from off
the earth, progressively receding; and at the end of a hundred and fifty
days the waters were lacking. 4 And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth
day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar'a·rat. 5 And
the waters kept on progressively lessening until the tenth month. In the
tenth month, on the first of the month, the tops of the mountains appeared.
6 So it occurred that at the end of forty days Noah proceeded to open the
window of the ark that he had made. 7 After that he sent out a raven, and it
continued flying outdoors, going and returning, until the waters dried off
the earth.
8 Later he sent out from him a dove to see whether the waters had abated
from the surface of the ground. 9 And the dove did not find any
resting-place for the sole of its foot, and so it returned to him into the
ark because the waters were yet upon the surface of the whole earth. At that
he put his hand out and took it and brought it to himself inside the ark. 10
And he went on waiting still another seven days, and once again he sent out
the dove from the ark. 11 Later on the dove came to him about the time of
evening and, look! there was an olive leaf freshly plucked in its bill, and
so Noah got to know that the waters had abated from the earth. 12 And he
went on waiting still another seven days. Then he sent out the dove, but it
did not come back again to him anymore.
13 Now in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first
day of the month, it came about that the waters had drained from off the
earth; and Noah proceeded to remove the covering of the ark and to look, and
here the surface of the ground had drained dry. 14 And in the second month,
on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth had dried off.
15 God now spoke to Noah, saying: 16 "Go out of the ark, you and your wife
and your sons and your sons' wives with you. 17 Every living creature that
is with you of every sort of flesh, among the flying creatures and among the
beasts and among all the moving animals that move upon the earth, bring out
with you, as they must swarm in the earth and be fruitful and become many
upon the earth."
18 At that Noah went out, and also his sons and his wife and his sons' wives
with him. 19 Every living creature, every moving animal and every flying
creature, everything that moves on the earth, according to their families
they went out of the ark. 20 And Noah began to build an altar to Jehovah and
to take some of all the clean beasts and of all the clean flying creatures
and to offer burnt offerings upon the altar. 21 And Jehovah began to smell a
restful odor, and so Jehovah said in his heart: "Never again shall I call
down evil upon the ground on man's account, because the inclination of the
heart of man is bad from his youth up; and never again shall I deal every
living thing a blow just as I have done. 22 For all the days the earth
continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and
winter, and day and night, will never cease."
9 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be
fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a
terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon
every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on
the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now
given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in
the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its
soul-its blood-YOU must not eat. 5 And, besides that, YOUR blood of YOUR
souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask
it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his
brother, shall I ask back the soul of man. 6 Anyone shedding man's blood, by
man will his own blood be shed, for in God's image he made man. 7 And as for
YOU men, be fruitful and become many, make the earth swarm with YOU and
become many in it."
8 And God went on to say to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "And as for me,
here I am establishing my covenant with YOU men and with YOUR offspring
after YOU, 10 and with every living soul that is with YOU, among fowls,
among beasts and among all living creatures of the earth with YOU, from all
those going out of the ark to every living creature of the earth. 11 Yes, I
do establish my covenant with YOU: No more will all flesh be cut off by
waters of a deluge, and no more will there occur a deluge to bring the earth
to ruin."
12 And God added: "This is the sign of the covenant that I am giving between
me and YOU and every living soul that is with YOU, for the generations to
time indefinite. 13 My rainbow I do give in the cloud, and it must serve as
a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 And it shall occur that
when I bring a cloud over the earth, then the rainbow will certainly appear
in the cloud. 15 And I shall certainly remember my covenant which is between
me and YOU and every living soul among all flesh; and no more will the
waters become a deluge to bring all flesh to ruin. 16 And the rainbow must
occur in the cloud, and I shall certainly see it to remember the covenant to
time indefinite between God and every living soul among all flesh that is
upon the earth."
17 And God repeated to Noah: "This is the sign of the covenant that I do
establish between me and all flesh that is upon the earth."
18 And Noah's sons who came out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Ja'pheth.
Later Ham was the father of Ca'naan. 19 These three were Noah's sons, and
from these was all the earth's population spread abroad.
20 Now Noah started off as a farmer and proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21
And he began drinking of the wine and became intoxicated, and so he
uncovered himself in the midst of his tent. 22 Later Ham the father of
Ca'naan saw his father's nakedness and went telling it to his two brothers
outside. 23 At that Shem and Ja'pheth took a mantle and put it upon both
their shoulders and walked in backwards. Thus they covered their father's
nakedness, while their faces were turned away, and they did not see their
father's nakedness.
24 Finally Noah awoke from his wine and got to know what his youngest son
had done to him. 25 At this he said:
"Cursed be Ca'naan.
Let him become the lowest slave to his brothers."
26 And he added:
"Blessed be Jehovah, Shem's God,
And let Ca'naan become a slave to him.
27 Let God grant ample space to Ja'pheth,
And let him reside in the tents of Shem.
Let Ca'naan become a slave to him also."
28 And Noah continued to live three hundred and fifty years after the
deluge. 29 So all the days of Noah amounted to nine hundred and fifty years
and he died.
10 And this is the history of Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth.
Now sons began to be born to them after the deluge. 2 The sons of Ja'pheth
were Go'mer and Ma'gog and Ma'da·i and Ja'van and Tu'bal and Me'shech and
Ti'ras.
3 And the sons of Go'mer were Ash'ke·naz and Ri'phath and To·gar'mah.
4 And the sons of Ja'van were E·li'shah and Tar'shish, Kit'tim and Do'da·nim.
5 From these the population of the isles of the nations was spread about in
their lands, each according to its tongue, according to their families, by
their nations.
6 And the sons of Ham were Cush and Miz'ra·im and Put and Ca'naan.
7 And the sons of Cush were Se'ba and Hav'i·lah and Sab'tah and Ra'a·mah and
Sab'te·ca.
And the sons of Ra'a·mah were She'ba and De'dan.
8 And Cush became father to Nim'rod. He made the start in becoming a mighty
one in the earth. 9 He displayed himself a mighty hunter in opposition to
Jehovah. That is why there is a saying: "Just like Nim'rod a mighty hunter
in opposition to Jehovah." 10 And the beginning of his kingdom came to be
Ba'bel and E'rech and Ac'cad and Cal'neh, in the land of Shi'nar. 11 Out of
that land he went forth into As·syr'i·a and set himself to building
Nin'e·veh and Re·ho'both-Ir and Ca'lah 12 and Re'sen between Nin'e·veh and
Ca'lah: this is the great city.
13 And Miz'ra·im became father to Lu'dim and An'a·mim and Le·ha'bim and
Naph·tu'him 14 and Path·ru'sim and Cas·lu'him (from among whom the
Phi·lis'tines went forth) and Caph'to·rim.
15 And Ca'naan became father to Si'don his firstborn and Heth 16 and the
Jeb'u·site and the Am'or·ite and the Gir'ga·shite 17 and the Hi'vite and the
Ark'ite and the Si'nite 18 and the Ar'vad·ite and the Zem'a·rite and the
Ha'math·ite; and afterward the families of the Ca'naan·ite were scattered.
19 So the boundary of the Ca'naan·ite came to be from Si'don as far as
Ge'rar, near Ga'za, as far as Sod'om and Go·mor'rah and Ad'mah and Ze·boi'im,
near La'sha. 20 These were the sons of Ham according to their families,
according to their tongues, in their lands, by their nations.
21 And to Shem, the forefather of all the sons of E'ber, the brother of
Ja'pheth the oldest, there was also progeny born. 22 The sons of Shem were
E'lam and As'shur and Ar·pach'shad and Lud and A'ram.
23 And the sons of A'ram were Uz and Hul and Ge'ther and Mash.
24 And Ar·pach'shad became father to She'lah, and She'lah became father to
E'ber.
25 And to E'ber there were two sons born. The name of the one was Pe'leg,
because in his days the earth was divided; and the name of his brother was
Jok'tan.
26 And Jok'tan became father to Al·mo'dad and She'leph and Ha·zar·ma'veth
and Je'rah 27 and Ha·do'ram and U'zal and Dik'lah 28 and O'bal and
A·bim'a·el and She'ba 29 and O'phir and Hav'i·lah and Jo'bab; all these were
the sons of Jok'tan.
30 And their place of dwelling came to extend from Me'sha as far as Se'phar,
the mountainous region of the East.
31 These were the sons of Shem according to their families, according to
their tongues, in their lands, according to their nations.
32 These were the families of the sons of Noah according to their family
descents, by their nations, and from these the nations were spread about in
the earth after the deluge.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
and again ...
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:01 AM
And some more -- whoohooo -- Judges
1 And after the death of Joshua it came about that the sons of Israel
proceeded to inquire of Jehovah, saying: "Who of us will go up first to the
Ca'naan·ites to fight against them?" 2 To this Jehovah said: "Judah will go
up. Look! I shall certainly give the land into his hand." 3 Then Judah said
to Sim'e·on his brother: "Come up with me into my lot and let us fight
against the Ca'naan·ites, and I myself in turn will go with you into your
lot." Accordingly Sim'e·on went with him.
4 With that Judah went on up and Jehovah gave the Ca'naan·ites and the
Per'iz·zites into their hands, so that they defeated them in Be'zek, ten
thousand men. 5 When they found A·do'ni-be'zek in Be'zek, then they fought
against him and defeated the Ca'naan·ites and the Per'iz·zites. 6 When
A·do'ni-be'zek took to flight, then they went chasing after him and got hold
of him and cut off the thumbs of his hands and the great toes of his feet. 7
At this A·do'ni-be'zek said: "There have been seventy kings with the thumbs
of their hands and the great toes of their feet cut off picking up food
under my table. Just the way I have done, so God has repaid me." After that
they brought him to Jerusalem and he died there.
8 Furthermore, the sons of Judah carried on war against Jerusalem and got to
capture it, and they went striking it with the edge of the sword, and the
city they consigned to the fire. 9 And afterward the sons of Judah went down
to fight against the Ca'naan·ites inhabiting the mountainous region and the
Neg'eb and the She·phe'lah. 10 So Judah marched against the Ca'naan·ites who
were dwelling in He'bron (now the name of He'bron before that was
Kir'i·ath-ar'ba), and they went striking down She'shai and A·hi'man and
Tal'mai.
11 And they marched on from there against the inhabitants of De'bir. (Now
the name of De'bir before that was Kir'i·ath-se'pher.) 12 Then Ca'leb said:
"Whoever strikes Kir'i·ath-se'pher and does capture it, why, I will give him
Ach'sah my daughter as a wife." 13 And Oth'ni·el the son of Ke'naz, Ca'leb's
younger brother, got to capture it. For that he gave him Ach'sah his
daughter as a wife. 14 And it came about that while she was going home, she
kept inciting him to ask a field from her father. Then she clapped her hands
while upon the ass. At this Ca'leb said to her: "What do you want?" 15 So
she said to him: "Do grant me a blessing, for it is a southern piece of land
you have given me, and you must give me Gul'loth-ma'im." Accordingly Ca'leb
gave her Upper Gul'loth and Lower Gul'loth.
16 And the sons of the Ken'ite, whose son-in-law Moses was, came up out of
the city of palm trees with the sons of Judah to the wilderness of Judah,
which is to the south of A'rad. Then they went and took up dwelling with the
people. 17 But Judah marched on with Sim'e·on his brother, and they
proceeded to strike the Ca'naan·ites inhabiting Ze'phath and to devote it to
destruction. Hence the name of the city was called Hor'mah. 18 After that
Judah captured Ga'za and its territory and Ash'ke·lon and its territory and
Ek'ron and its territory. 19 And Jehovah continued with Judah, so that he
took possession of the mountainous region, but he could not dispossess the
inhabitants of the low plain, because they had war chariots with iron
scythes. 20 When they gave Ca'leb He'bron, just as Moses had promised, then
he drove out from there the three sons of A'nak.
21 And the sons of Benjamin did not drive out the Jeb'u·sites inhabiting
Jerusalem; but the Jeb'u·sites keep on dwelling with the sons of Benjamin in
Jerusalem down to this day.
22 Meantime the house of Joseph itself also went up against Beth'el, and
Jehovah was with them. 23 And the house of Joseph began to spy on Beth'el
(incidentally, the name of the city before that was Luz), 24 and the
watchers got to see a man going out of the city. So they said to him: "Show
us, please, the way to get into the city, and we shall certainly exercise
kindness toward you." 25 Accordingly the man showed them the way to get into
the city; and they went striking the city with the edge of the sword, but
the man and all his family they let go. 26 Upon that the man went to the
land of the Hit'tites and built a city and called its name Luz. That is its
name down to this day.
27 And Ma·nas'seh did not take possession of Beth-she'an and its dependent
towns and Ta'a·nach and its dependent towns and the inhabitants of Dor and
its dependent towns and the inhabitants of Ib'le·am and its dependent towns
and the inhabitants of Me·gid'do and its dependent towns, but the
Ca'naan·ites persisted in dwelling in this land. 28 And it came about that
Israel grew strong and proceeded to set the Ca'naan·ites to forced labor,
and they did not drive them out completely.
29 Neither did E'phra·im drive out the Ca'naan·ites who were dwelling in
Ge'zer, but the Ca'naan·ites continued to dwell in among them in Ge'zer.
30 Zeb'u·lun did not drive out the inhabitants of Kit'ron and the
inhabitants of Na'ha·lol, but the Ca'naan·ites continued to dwell in among
them and came to be subject to forced labor.
31 Ash'er did not drive out the inhabitants of Ac'co and the inhabitants of
Si'don and Ah'lab and Ach'zib and Hel'bah and A'phik and Re'hob. 32 And the
Ash'er·ites continued to dwell in among the Ca'naan·ites inhabiting the
land, because they did not drive them out.
33 Naph'ta·li did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-she'mesh and the
inhabitants of Beth-a'nath, but they continued to dwell in among the
Ca'naan·ites inhabiting the land; and the inhabitants of Beth-she'mesh and
of Beth-a'nath became theirs for forced labor.
34 And the Am'or·ites kept pressing the sons of Dan into the mountainous
region, for they did not allow them to come down into the low plain. 35 So
the Am'or·ites persisted in dwelling in Mount He'res and in Ai'ja·lon and
Sha·al'bim. But the hand of the house of Joseph got to be so heavy that they
were forced into task work. 36 And the territory of the Am'or·ites was from
the ascent of A·krab'bim, from Se'la upward.
2 Then Jehovah's angel went up from Gil'gal to Bo'chim and said: "I
proceeded to bring YOU up out of Egypt and to bring YOU into the land about
which I swore to YOUR forefathers. Furthermore, I said, 'Never shall I break
my covenant with YOU. 2 And for YOUR part, YOU must not conclude a covenant
with the inhabitants of this land. Their altars YOU should pull down.' But
YOU have not listened to my voice. Why have YOU done this? 3 So I, in turn,
have said, 'I shall not drive them away from before YOU, and they must
become snares to YOU, and their gods will serve as a lure to YOU.'"
4 And it came about that as soon as Jehovah's angel had spoken these words
to all the sons of Israel, the people began to raise their voices and weep.
5 Hence they called the name of that place Bo'chim. And they proceeded to
sacrifice there to Jehovah.
6 When Joshua sent the people away, then the sons of Israel went their way,
each to his inheritance, to take possession of the land. 7 And the people
continued to serve Jehovah all the days of Joshua and all the days of the
older men who extended their days after Joshua and who had seen all of
Jehovah's great work that he did for Israel. 8 Then Joshua the son of Nun,
the servant of Jehovah, died at the age of a hundred and ten years. 9 So
they buried him in the territory of his inheritance in Tim'nath-he'res in
the mountainous region of E'phra·im, on the north of Mount Ga'ash. 10 And
all that generation too were gathered to their fathers, and another
generation began to rise after them that did not know Jehovah or the work
that he had done for Israel.
11 And the sons of Israel fell to doing what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah
and serving the Ba'als. 12 Thus they abandoned Jehovah the God of their
fathers who had brought them out of the land of Egypt and went following
other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were all around them and
they began bowing down to them, so that they offended Jehovah. 13 Thus they
abandoned Jehovah and took up serving Ba'al and the Ash'to·reth images. 14
At this Jehovah's anger blazed against Israel, so that he gave them into the
hands of the pillagers, and they began to pillage them; and he proceeded to
sell them into the hand of their enemies round about, and they were no
longer able to stand before their enemies. 15 Everywhere that they went out,
the hand of Jehovah proved to be against them for calamity, just as Jehovah
had spoken and just as Jehovah had sworn to them; and they got to be in very
sore straits. 16 So Jehovah would raise up judges, and they would save them
out of the hand of their pillagers.
17 And even to their judges they did not listen, but they had immoral
intercourse with other gods and went bowing down to them. They quickly
turned aside from the way in which their forefathers had walked by obeying
the commandments of Jehovah. They did not do like that. 18 And when Jehovah
did raise up judges for them, Jehovah proved to be with the judge, and he
saved them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for
Jehovah would feel regret over their groaning because of their oppressors
and those who were shoving them around.
19 And it occurred that when the judge died they would turn around and act
more ruinously than their fathers by walking after other gods to serve them
and bow down to them. They did not refrain from their practices and their
stubborn behavior. 20 Finally Jehovah's anger blazed against Israel and he
said: "For the reason that this nation have overstepped my covenant that I
commanded their forefathers and have not listened to my voice, 21 I too, for
my part, shall not drive out again from before them a single one of the
nations that Joshua left behind when he died, 22 in order by them to test
Israel, whether they will be keepers of Jehovah's way by walking in it just
as their fathers kept it, or not." 23 Accordingly Jehovah let these nations
stay by not driving them out quickly, and he did not give them into Joshua's
hand.
3 Now these are the nations that Jehovah let stay so as by them to test
Israel, that is, all those who had not experienced any of the wars of
Ca'naan; 2 it was only in order for the generations of the sons of Israel to
have the experience, so as to teach them war, that is, only those who before
that had not experienced such things: 3 The five axis lords of the
Phi·lis'tines, and all the Ca'naan·ites, even the Si·do'ni·ans and the
Hi'vites inhabiting Mount Leb'a·non from Mount Ba'al-her'mon as far as to
the entering in of Ha'math. 4 And they kept serving as agents to test Israel
so as to know whether they would obey Jehovah's commandments that he had
commanded their fathers by means of Moses. 5 And the sons of Israel dwelt in
among the Ca'naan·ites, the Hit'tites and the Am'or·ites and the
Per'iz·zites and the Hi'vites and the Jeb'u·sites. 6 And they proceeded to
take their daughters as wives for themselves, and their own daughters they
gave to their sons, and they took up serving their gods.
7 So the sons of Israel did what was bad in Jehovah's eyes, and they were
forgetful of Jehovah their God and went serving the Ba'als and the sacred
poles. 8 At this Jehovah's anger blazed against Israel, so that he sold them
into the hand of Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im the king of Mes·o·po·ta'mi·a; and the
sons of Israel continued to serve Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im eight years. 9 And
the sons of Israel began to call to Jehovah for aid. Then Jehovah raised a
savior up for the sons of Israel that he might save them, Oth'ni·el the son
of Ke'naz, the younger brother of Ca'leb. 10 The spirit of Jehovah now came
upon him, and he became the judge of Israel. When he went out to battle,
then Jehovah gave Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im the king of Syria into his hand so
that his hand overpowered Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im. 11 After that the land had
no disturbance for forty years. Eventually Oth'ni·el the son of Ke'naz died.
12 And once again the sons of Israel went doing what was bad in Jehovah's
eyes. At that Jehovah let Eg'lon the king of Mo'ab grow strong against
Israel, because they did what was bad in Jehovah's eyes. 13 Furthermore, he
gathered against them the sons of Am'mon and Am'a·lek. Then they went and
struck Israel and took possession of the city of palm trees. 14 And the sons
of Israel continued to serve Eg'lon the king of Mo'ab eighteen years. 15 And
the sons of Israel began to call to Jehovah for aid. So Jehovah raised up
for them a savior, E'hud the son of Ge'ra, a Ben'ja·mite, a left-handed man.
In time the sons of Israel sent tribute by his hand to Eg'lon the king of
Mo'ab. 16 Meanwhile E'hud made a sword for himself, and it had two edges,
its length being a cubit. Then he girded it underneath his garment upon his
right thigh. 17 And he proceeded to present the tribute to Eg'lon the king
of Mo'ab. Now Eg'lon was a very fat man.
18 And it came about that when he had finished presenting the tribute, he at
once sent the people away, the bearers of the tribute. 19 And he himself
turned back at the quarries that were at Gil'gal, and he proceeded to say:
"I have a secret word for you, O king." So he said: "Keep silence!" With
that all those who were standing by him went on out from him. 20 And E'hud
came to him as he was sitting in his cool roof chamber that he had to
himself. And E'hud went on to say: "A word of God I have for you." At that
he rose up from his throne. 21 Then E'hud thrust in his left hand and took
the sword off his right thigh and plunged it into his belly. 22 And the
handle kept going in also after the blade so that the fat closed in over the
blade, for he did not draw the sword out of his belly, and the fecal matter
began to come out. 23 And E'hud proceeded to go out through the air hole,
but he closed the doors of the roof chamber behind him and locked them. 24
And he himself went out.
And his servants came and began looking, and there the doors of the roof
chamber were locked. So they said: "He is just easing nature in the cool
interior room." 25 And they kept waiting until they were ashamed, and, look!
there was no one opening the doors of the roof chamber. At this they took
the key and opened them, and, look! their lord was fallen to the earth dead!
26 As for E'hud, he escaped while they were lingering, and he himself passed
by the quarries and made his escape to Se·i'rah. 27 And it came about that
when he got there he began blowing the horn in the mountainous region of
E'phra·im; and the sons of Israel began going down with him out of the
mountainous region, he being at their head. 28 Then he said to them: "Follow
me, because Jehovah has given YOUR enemies, the Mo'ab·ites, into YOUR hand."
And they went following him and got to capture the fords of the Jordan
against the Mo'ab·ites, and they did not allow anybody to pass over. 29 And
at that time they went striking down Mo'ab, about ten thousand men, every
one robust and every one a valiant man; and not a single one escaped. 30 And
Mo'ab came to be subdued on that day under Israel's hand; and the land had
no further disturbance for eighty years.
31 And after him there proved to be Sham'gar the son of A'nath, and he went
striking down the Phi·lis'tines, six hundred men, with a cattle goad; and he
too got to save Israel.
4 Then the sons of Israel again began to do what was bad in Jehovah's eyes
now that E'hud was dead. 2 So Jehovah sold them into the hand of Ja'bin the
king of Ca'naan, who reigned in Ha'zor; and the chief of his army was
Sis'e·ra, and he was dwelling in Ha·ro'sheth of the nations. 3 And the sons
of Israel began to cry out to Jehovah, because he had nine hundred war
chariots with iron scythes, and he himself oppressed the sons of Israel with
harshness twenty years.
4 Now Deb'o·rah, a prophetess, the wife of Lap'pi·doth, was judging Israel
at that particular time. 5 And she was dwelling under Deb'o·rah's palm tree
between Ra'mah and Beth'el in the mountainous region of E'phra·im; and the
sons of Israel would go up to her for judgment. 6 And she proceeded to send
and call Ba'rak the son of A·bin'o·am out of Ke'desh-naph'ta·li and to say
to him: "Has not Jehovah the God of Israel given the command? 'Go and you
must spread yourself out on Mount Ta'bor, and you must take with you ten
thousand men out of the sons of Naph'ta·li and out of the sons of Zeb'u·lun.
7 And I shall certainly draw to you at the torrent valley of Ki'shon
Sis'e·ra the chief of Ja'bin's army and his war chariots and his crowd, and
I shall indeed give him into your hand.'"
8 At this Ba'rak said to her: "If you will go with me, I also shall
certainly go; but if you will not go with me, I shall not go." 9 To this she
said: "Without fail I shall go with you. Just the same, the beautifying
thing will not become yours on the way that you are going, for it will be
into the hand of a woman that Jehovah will sell Sis'e·ra." With that
Deb'o·rah got up and went with Ba'rak to Ke'desh. 10 And Ba'rak began to
call Zeb'u·lun and Naph'ta·li together to Ke'desh, and ten thousand men went
on up following his steps; and Deb'o·rah went on up with him.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
and again ... hehe ...
6 And Seth lived on for a hundred and five years. Then he became father
to E'nosh. 7 And after his fathering E'nosh Seth continued to live eight
hundred and seven years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 8
So all the days of Seth amounted to nine hundred and twelve years and he
died.
9 And E'nosh lived on for ninety years. Then he became father to Ke'nan. 10
And after his fathering Ke'nan E'nosh continued to live eight hundred and
fifteen years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 11 So all
the days of E'nosh amounted to nine hundred and five years and he died.
12 And Ke'nan lived on for seventy years. Then he became father to
Ma·hal'a·lel. 13 And after his fathering Ma·hal'a·lel Ke'nan continued to
live eight hundred and forty years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and
daughters. 14 So all the days of Ke'nan amounted to nine hundred and ten
years and he died.
15 And Ma·hal'a·lel lived on for sixty-five years. Then he became father to
Ja'red. 16 And after his fathering Ja'red Ma·hal'a·lel continued to live
eight hundred and thirty years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and
daughters. 17 So all the days of Ma·hal'a·lel amounted to eight hundred and
ninety-five years and he died.
18 And Ja'red lived on for a hundred and sixty-two years. Then he became
father to E'noch. 19 And after his fathering E'noch Ja'red continued to live
eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 20 So
all the days of Ja'red amounted to nine hundred and sixty-two years and he
died.
21 And E'noch lived on for sixty-five years. Then he became father to
Me·thu'se·lah. 22 And after his fathering Me·thu'se·lah E'noch went on
walking with the [true] God three hundred years. Meanwhile he became father
to sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of E'noch amounted to three
hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And E'noch kept walking with the [true]
God. Then he was no more, for God took him.
25 And Me·thu'se·lah lived on for a hundred and eighty-seven years. Then he
became father to La'mech. 26 And after his fathering La'mech Me·thu'se·lah
continued to live seven hundred and eighty-two years. Meanwhile he became
father to sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Me·thu'se·lah amounted
to nine hundred and sixty-nine years and he died.
28 And La'mech lived on for a hundred and eighty-two years. Then he became
father to a son. 29 And he proceeded to call his name Noah, saying: "This
one will bring us comfort from our work and from the pain of our hands
resulting from the ground which Jehovah has cursed." 30 And after his
fathering Noah La'mech continued to live five hundred and ninety-five years.
Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of
La'mech amounted to seven hundred and seventy-seven years and he died.
32 And Noah got to be five hundred years old. After that Noah became father
to Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth.
6 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface
of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true]
God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and
they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. 3 After
that Jehovah said: "My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that
he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty
years."
4 The Neph'i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after
that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the
daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who
were of old, the men of fame.
5 Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth
and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the
time. 6 And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he
felt hurt at his heart. 7 So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I
have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to
moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret
that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah.
9 This is the history of Noah.
Noah was a righteous man. He proved himself faultless among his
contemporaries. Noah walked with the [true] God. 10 In time Noah became
father to three sons, Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth. 11 And the earth came to be
ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with
violence. 12 So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all
flesh had ruined its way on the earth.
13 After that God said to Noah: "The end of all flesh has come before me,
because the earth is full of violence as a result of them; and here I am
bringing them to ruin together with the earth. 14 Make for yourself an ark
out of wood of a resinous tree. You will make compartments in the ark, and
you must cover it inside and outside with tar. 15 And this is how you will
make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width,
and thirty cubits its height. 16 You will make a tso'har [roof; or, window]
for the ark, and you will complete it to the extent of a cubit upward, and
the entrance of the ark you will put in its side; you will make it with a
lower [story], a second [story] and a third [story].
17 "And as for me, here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to
bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the
heavens. Everything that is in the earth will expire. 18 And I do establish
my covenant with you; and you must go into the ark, you and your sons and
your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 And of every living creature of
every sort of flesh, two of each, you will bring into the ark to preserve
them alive with you. Male and female they will be. 20 Of the flying
creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to
their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds,
two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive. 21 And as for
you, take for yourself every sort of food that is eaten; and you must gather
it to yourself, and it must serve as food for you and for them."
22 And Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He
did just so.
7 After that Jehovah said to Noah: "Go, you and all your household, into the
ark, because you are the one I have seen to be righteous before me among
this generation. 2 Of every clean beast you must take to yourself by sevens,
the sire and its mate; and of every beast that is not clean just two, the
sire and its mate; 3 also of the flying creatures of the heavens by sevens,
male and female, to preserve offspring alive on the surface of the entire
earth. 4 For in just seven days more I am making it rain upon the earth
forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe every existing thing that I
have made off the surface of the ground." 5 And Noah proceeded to do
according to all that Jehovah had commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge of waters occurred on
the earth. 7 So Noah went in, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives
with him, into the ark ahead of the waters of the deluge. 8 Of every clean
beast and of every beast that is not clean and of the flying creatures and
everything that moves on the ground, 9 they went in by twos to Noah inside
the ark, male and female, just as God had commanded Noah. 10 And seven days
later it turned out that the waters of the deluge came upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the
seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery
deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And
the downpour upon the earth went on for forty days and forty nights. 13 On
this very day Noah went in, and Shem and Ham and Ja'pheth, Noah's sons, and
the wife of Noah and the three wives of his sons with him, into the ark; 14
they and every wild beast according to its kind, and every domestic animal
according to its kind, and every moving animal that moves on the earth
according to its kind, and every flying creature according to its kind,
every bird, every winged creature. 15 And they kept going to Noah inside the
ark, two by two, of every sort of flesh in which the force of life was
active. 16 And those going in, male and female of every sort of flesh, went
in, just as God had commanded him. After that Jehovah shut the door behind
him.
17 And the deluge went on for forty days upon the earth, and the waters kept
increasing and began carrying the ark and it was floating high above the
earth. 18 And the waters became overwhelming and kept increasing greatly
upon the earth, but the ark kept going on the surface of the waters. 19 And
the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that
were under the whole heavens came to be covered. 20 Up to fifteen cubits the
waters overwhelmed them and the mountains became covered.
21 So all flesh that was moving upon the earth expired, among the flying
creatures and among the domestic animals and among the wild beasts and among
all the swarms that were swarming upon the earth, and all mankind. 22
Everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its
nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died. 23 Thus he wiped
out every existing thing that was on the surface of the ground, from man to
beast, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, and they were
wiped off the earth; and only Noah and those who were with him in the ark
kept on surviving. 24 And the waters continued overwhelming the earth a
hundred and fifty days.
8 After that God remembered Noah and every wild beast and every domestic
animal that was with him in the ark, and God caused a wind to pass over the
earth, and the waters began to subside. 2 And the springs of the watery deep
and the floodgates of the heavens became stopped up, and so the downpour
from the heavens was restrained. 3 And the waters began receding from off
the earth, progressively receding; and at the end of a hundred and fifty
days the waters were lacking. 4 And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth
day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar'a·rat. 5 And
the waters kept on progressively lessening until the tenth month. In the
tenth month, on the first of the month, the tops of the mountains appeared.
6 So it occurred that at the end of forty days Noah proceeded to open the
window of the ark that he had made. 7 After that he sent out a raven, and it
continued flying outdoors, going and returning, until the waters dried off
the earth.
8 Later he sent out from him a dove to see whether the waters had abated
from the surface of the ground. 9 And the dove did not find any
resting-place for the sole of its foot, and so it returned to him into the
ark because the waters were yet upon the surface of the whole earth. At that
he put his hand out and took it and brought it to himself inside the ark. 10
And he went on waiting still another seven days, and once again he sent out
the dove from the ark. 11 Later on the dove came to him about the time of
evening and, look! there was an olive leaf freshly plucked in its bill, and
so Noah got to know that the waters had abated from the earth. 12 And he
went on waiting still another seven days. Then he sent out the dove, but it
did not come back again to him anymore.
13 Now in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first
day of the month, it came about that the waters had drained from off the
earth; and Noah proceeded to remove the covering of the ark and to look, and
here the surface of the ground had drained dry. 14 And in the second month,
on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth had dried off.
15 God now spoke to Noah, saying: 16 "Go out of the ark, you and your wife
and your sons and your sons' wives with you. 17 Every living creature that
is with you of every sort of flesh, among the flying creatures and among the
beasts and among all the moving animals that move upon the earth, bring out
with you, as they must swarm in the earth and be fruitful and become many
upon the earth."
18 At that Noah went out, and also his sons and his wife and his sons' wives
with him. 19 Every living creature, every moving animal and every flying
creature, everything that moves on the earth, according to their families
they went out of the ark. 20 And Noah began to build an altar to Jehovah and
to take some of all the clean beasts and of all the clean flying creatures
and to offer burnt offerings upon the altar. 21 And Jehovah began to smell a
restful odor, and so Jehovah said in his heart: "Never again shall I call
down evil upon the ground on man's account, because the inclination of the
heart of man is bad from his youth up; and never again shall I deal every
living thing a blow just as I have done. 22 For all the days the earth
continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and
winter, and day and night, will never cease."
9 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be
fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a
terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon
every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on
the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now
given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in
the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its
soul-its blood-YOU must not eat. 5 And, besides that, YOUR blood of YOUR
souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask
it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his
brother, shall I ask back the soul of man. 6 Anyone shedding man's blood, by
man will his own blood be shed, for in God's image he made man. 7 And as for
YOU men, be fruitful and become many, make the earth swarm with YOU and
become many in it."
8 And God went on to say to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "And as for me,
here I am establishing my covenant with YOU men and with YOUR offspring
after YOU, 10 and with every living soul that is with YOU, among fowls,
among beasts and among all living creatures of the earth with YOU, from all
those going out of the ark to every living creature of the earth. 11 Yes, I
do establish my covenant with YOU: No more will all flesh be cut off by
waters of a deluge, and no more will there occur a deluge to bring the earth
to ruin."
12 And God added: "This is the sign of the covenant that I am giving between
me and YOU and every living soul that is with YOU, for the generations to
time indefinite. 13 My rainbow I do give in the cloud, and it must serve as
a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 And it shall occur that
when I bring a cloud over the earth, then the rainbow will certainly appear
in the cloud. 15 And I shall certainly remember my covenant which is between
me and YOU and every living soul among all flesh; and no more will the
waters become a deluge to bring all flesh to ruin. 16 And the rainbow must
occur in the cloud, and I shall certainly see it to remember the covenant to
time indefinite between God and every living soul among all flesh that is
upon the earth."
17 And God repeated to Noah: "This is the sign of the covenant that I do
establish between me and all flesh that is upon the earth."
18 And Noah's sons who came out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Ja'pheth.
Later Ham was the father of Ca'naan. 19 These three were Noah's sons, and
from these was all the earth's population spread abroad.
20 Now Noah started off as a farmer and proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21
And he began drinking of the wine and became intoxicated, and so he
uncovered himself in the midst of his tent. 22 Later Ham the father of
Ca'naan saw his father's nakedness and went telling it to his two brothers
outside. 23 At that Shem and Ja'pheth took a mantle and put it upon both
their shoulders and walked in backwards. Thus they covered their father's
nakedness, while their faces were turned away, and they did not see their
father's nakedness.
24 Finally Noah awoke from his wine and got to know what his youngest son
had done to him. 25 At this he said:
"Cursed be Ca'naan.
Let him become the lowest slave to his brothers."
26 And he added:
"Blessed be Jehovah, Shem's God,
And let Ca'naan become a slave to him.
27 Let God grant ample space to Ja'pheth,
And let him reside in the tents of Shem.
Let Ca'naan become a slave to him also."
28 And Noah continued to live three hundred and fifty years after the
deluge. 29 So all the days of Noah amounted to nine hundred and fifty years
and he died.
10 And this is the history of Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Ja'pheth.
Now sons began to be born to them after the deluge. 2 The sons of Ja'pheth
were Go'mer and Ma'gog and Ma'da·i and Ja'van and Tu'bal and Me'shech and
Ti'ras.
3 And the sons of Go'mer were Ash'ke·naz and Ri'phath and To·gar'mah.
4 And the sons of Ja'van were E·li'shah and Tar'shish, Kit'tim and Do'da·nim.
5 From these the population of the isles of the nations was spread about in
their lands, each according to its tongue, according to their families, by
their nations.
6 And the sons of Ham were Cush and Miz'ra·im and Put and Ca'naan.
7 And the sons of Cush were Se'ba and Hav'i·lah and Sab'tah and Ra'a·mah and
Sab'te·ca.
And the sons of Ra'a·mah were She'ba and De'dan.
8 And Cush became father to Nim'rod. He made the start in becoming a mighty
one in the earth. 9 He displayed himself a mighty hunter in opposition to
Jehovah. That is why there is a saying: "Just like Nim'rod a mighty hunter
in opposition to Jehovah." 10 And the beginning of his kingdom came to be
Ba'bel and E'rech and Ac'cad and Cal'neh, in the land of Shi'nar. 11 Out of
that land he went forth into As·syr'i·a and set himself to building
Nin'e·veh and Re·ho'both-Ir and Ca'lah 12 and Re'sen between Nin'e·veh and
Ca'lah: this is the great city.
13 And Miz'ra·im became father to Lu'dim and An'a·mim and Le·ha'bim and
Naph·tu'him 14 and Path·ru'sim and Cas·lu'him (from among whom the
Phi·lis'tines went forth) and Caph'to·rim.
15 And Ca'naan became father to Si'don his firstborn and Heth 16 and the
Jeb'u·site and the Am'or·ite and the Gir'ga·shite 17 and the Hi'vite and the
Ark'ite and the Si'nite 18 and the Ar'vad·ite and the Zem'a·rite and the
Ha'math·ite; and afterward the families of the Ca'naan·ite were scattered.
19 So the boundary of the Ca'naan·ite came to be from Si'don as far as
Ge'rar, near Ga'za, as far as Sod'om and Go·mor'rah and Ad'mah and Ze·boi'im,
near La'sha. 20 These were the sons of Ham according to their families,
according to their tongues, in their lands, by their nations.
21 And to Shem, the forefather of all the sons of E'ber, the brother of
Ja'pheth the oldest, there was also progeny born. 22 The sons of Shem were
E'lam and As'shur and Ar·pach'shad and Lud and A'ram.
23 And the sons of A'ram were Uz and Hul and Ge'ther and Mash.
24 And Ar·pach'shad became father to She'lah, and She'lah became father to
E'ber.
25 And to E'ber there were two sons born. The name of the one was Pe'leg,
because in his days the earth was divided; and the name of his brother was
Jok'tan.
26 And Jok'tan became father to Al·mo'dad and She'leph and Ha·zar·ma'veth
and Je'rah 27 and Ha·do'ram and U'zal and Dik'lah 28 and O'bal and
A·bim'a·el and She'ba 29 and O'phir and Hav'i·lah and Jo'bab; all these were
the sons of Jok'tan.
30 And their place of dwelling came to extend from Me'sha as far as Se'phar,
the mountainous region of the East.
31 These were the sons of Shem according to their families, according to
their tongues, in their lands, according to their nations.
32 These were the families of the sons of Noah according to their family
descents, by their nations, and from these the nations were spread about in
the earth after the deluge.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:04 AM
And a bit of this .... yeee ... Psalms
BOOK ONE
(Psalms 1 - 41)
1 Happy is the man that has not walked in the counsel of the wicked ones,
And in the way of sinners has not stood,
And in the seat of ridiculers has not sat.
2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah,
And in his law he reads in an undertone day and night.
3 And he will certainly become like a tree planted by streams of water,
That gives its own fruit in its season
And the foliage of which does not wither,
And everything he does will succeed.
4 The wicked are not like that,
But are like the chaff that the wind drives away.
5 That is why the wicked ones will not stand up in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the assembly of righteous ones.
6 For Jehovah is taking knowledge of the way of righteous ones,
But the very way of wicked ones will perish.
2 Why have the nations been in tumult
And the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing?
2 The kings of earth take their stand
And high officials themselves have massed together as one
Against Jehovah and against his anointed one,
3 [Saying:] "Let us tear their bands apart
And cast their cords away from us!"
4 The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh;
Jehovah himself will hold them in derision.
5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger
And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them,
6 [Saying:] "I, even I, have installed my king
Upon Zion, my holy mountain."
7 Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah;
He has said to me: "You are my son;
I, today, I have become your father.
8 Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance
And the ends of the earth as your own possession.
9 You will break them with an iron scepter,
As though a potter's vessel you will dash them to pieces."
10 And now, O kings, exercise insight;
Let yourselves be corrected, O judges of the earth.
11 Serve Jehovah with fear
And be joyful with trembling.
12 Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed
And YOU may not perish [from] the way,
For his anger flares up easily.
Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
A melody of David when he was running away on account of Ab'sa·lom his son.
3 O Jehovah, why have my adversaries become many?
Why are many rising up against me?
2 Many are saying of my soul:
"There is no salvation for him by God." Se'lah.
3 And yet you, O Jehovah, are a shield about me,
My glory and the One lifting up my head.
4 With my voice I shall call to Jehovah himself,
And he will answer me from his holy mountain. Se'lah.
5 As for me, I will lie down that I may sleep;
I shall certainly awake, for Jehovah himself keeps supporting me.
6 I shall not be afraid of ten thousands of people
Who have set themselves in array against me round about.
7 Do arise, O Jehovah! Save me, O my God!
For you will have to strike all my enemies on the jaw.
The teeth of wicked ones you will have to break.
8 Salvation belongs to Jehovah.
Your blessing is upon your people. Se'lah.
To the director on stringed instruments. A melody of David.
4 When I call, answer me, O my righteous God.
In the distress you must make broad space for me.
Show me favor and hear my prayer.
2 YOU sons of men, how long must my glory be for insult,
[While] YOU keep loving empty things,
[While] YOU keep seeking to find a lie? Se'lah.
3 So take knowledge that Jehovah will certainly distinguish his loyal one;
Jehovah himself will hear when I call to him.
4 BE agitated, but do not sin.
Have YOUR say in YOUR heart, upon YOUR bed, and keep silent. Se'lah.
5 Sacrifice the sacrifices of righteousness,
And trust in Jehovah.
6 There are many saying: "Who will show us good?"
Lift up the light of your face upon us, O Jehovah.
7 You will certainly give a rejoicing in my heart
Greater than in the time when their grain and their new wine have abounded.
8 In peace I will both lie down and sleep,
For you yourself alone, O Jehovah, make me dwell in security.
To the director for Ne'hi·loth. A melody of David.
5 To my sayings do give ear, O Jehovah;
Do understand my sighing.
2 Do pay attention to the sound of my cry for help,
O my King and my God, because to you I pray.
3 O Jehovah, in the morning you will hear my voice;
In the morning I shall address myself to you and be on the watch.
4 For you are not a God taking delight in wickedness;
No one bad may reside for any time with you.
5 No boasters may take their stand in front of your eyes.
You do hate all those practicing what is hurtful;
6 You will destroy those speaking a lie.
A man of bloodshed and deception Jehovah detests.
7 As for me, in the abundance of your loving-kindness
I shall come into your house,
I shall bow down toward your holy temple in fear of you.
8 O Jehovah, lead me in your righteousness by reason of my foes;
Make your way smooth before me.
9 For in their mouth there is nothing trustworthy;
Their inward part is adversity indeed.
Their throat is an opened burial place;
A smooth tongue they use.
10 God will certainly hold them guilty;
They will fall due to their own counsels.
In the multitude of their transgressions let there be a dispersing of them,
Because they have rebelled against you.
11 But all those taking refuge in you will rejoice;
To time indefinite they will cry out joyfully.
And you will block approach to them,
And those loving your name will exult in you.
12 For you yourself will bless anyone righteous, O Jehovah;
As with a large shield, with approval you will surround them.
To the director on stringed instruments on the lower octave. A melody of
David.
6 O Jehovah, do not in your anger reprove me,
And do not in your rage correct me.
2 Show me favor, O Jehovah, for I am fading away.
Heal me, O Jehovah, for my bones have been disturbed.
3 Yes, my own soul has been very much disturbed;
And you, O Jehovah-how long?
4 Do return, O Jehovah, do rescue my soul;
Save me for the sake of your loving-kindness.
5 For in death there is no mention of you;
In She'ol who will laud you?
6 I have grown weary with my sighing;
All night long I make my couch swim;
With my tears I make my own divan overflow.
7 From vexation my eye has become weak,
It has grown old because of all those showing hostility to me.
8 Get away from me, all YOU practicers of what is hurtful,
For Jehovah will certainly hear the sound of my weeping.
9 Jehovah will indeed hear my request for favor;
Jehovah himself will accept my own prayer.
10 All my enemies will be very much ashamed and disturbed;
They will turn back, they will be ashamed instantly.
A dirge of David that he sang to Jehovah concerning the words of Cush the
Ben'ja·min·ite.
7 O Jehovah my God, in you I have taken refuge.
Save me from all those persecuting me and deliver me,
2 That no one may tear my soul to pieces as a lion does,
Snatching [me] away when there is no deliverer.
3 O Jehovah my God, if I have done this,
If there exists any injustice in my hands,
4 If I have repaid the one rewarding me with what is bad,
Or [if] I have despoiled anyone showing hostility to me without success,
5 Let an enemy pursue my soul
And let him overtake and trample my life down to the very earth
And cause my own glory to reside in the dust itself. Se'lah.
6 Do arise, O Jehovah, in your anger;
Lift yourself up at the outbursts of fury of those showing hostility to me,
And do awake for me, [since] you have given command for judgment itself.
7 And let the very assembly of national groups surround you,
And against it do you return on high.
8 Jehovah himself will pass sentence on the peoples.
Judge me, O Jehovah, according to my righteousness
And according to my integrity in me.
9 Please, may the badness of wicked ones come to an end,
And may you establish the righteous one;
And God as righteous is testing out heart and kidneys.
10 The shield for me is upon God, a Savior of those upright in heart.
11 God is a righteous Judge,
And God is hurling denunciations every day.
12 If anyone will not return, His sword he will sharpen,
His bow he will certainly bend, and he will make it ready [for shooting].
13 And for himself he must prepare the instruments of death;
His arrows he will make flaming ones.
14 Look! There is one that is pregnant with what is hurtful,
And he has conceived trouble and is bound to give birth to falsehood.
15 A pit he has excavated, and he proceeded to dig it;
But he will fall into the hole [that] he went making.
16 His trouble will return upon his own head,
And upon the crown of his head his own violence will descend.
17 I shall laud Jehovah according to his righteousness,
And I will make melody to the name of Jehovah the Most High.
To the director upon the Git'tith. A melody of David.
8 O Jehovah our Lord, how majestic your name is in all the earth,
You whose dignity is recounted above the heavens!
2 Out of the mouth of children and sucklings you have founded strength,
On account of those showing hostility to you,
So as to make the enemy and the one taking his vengeance desist.
3 When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers,
The moon and the stars that you have prepared,
4 What is mortal man that you keep him in mind,
And the son of earthling man that you take care of him?
5 You also proceeded to make him a little less than godlike ones,
And with glory and splendor you then crowned him.
6 You make him dominate over the works of your hands;
Everything you have put under his feet:
7 Small cattle and oxen, all of them,
And also the beasts of the open field,
8 The birds of heaven and the fish of the sea,
Anything passing through the paths of the seas.
9 O Jehovah our Lord, how majestic your name is in all the earth!
To the director upon Muth-lab'ben. A melody of David.
<H<!>H> [´A'leph]
9 I will laud [you], O Jehovah, with all my heart;
I will declare all your wonderful works.
2 I will rejoice and exult in you,
I will make melody to your name, O Most High.
<H<">H> [Behth]
3 When my enemies turn back,
They will stumble and perish from before you.
4 For you have executed my judgment and my cause;
You have sat on the throne judging with righteousness.
<H<#>H> [Gi'mel]
5 You have rebuked nations, you have destroyed the wicked one.
Their name you have wiped out to time indefinite, even forever.
6 O you enemy, [your] desolations have come to their perpetual finish,
And the cities that you have uprooted.
The very mention of them will certainly perish.
<H<%>H> [He´]
7 As for Jehovah, he will sit to time indefinite,
Firmly establishing his throne for judgment itself.
8 And he himself will judge the productive land in righteousness;
He will judicially try national groups in uprightness.
<H<&>H> [Waw]
9 And Jehovah will become a secure height for anyone crushed,
A secure height in times of distress.
10 And those knowing your name will trust in you,
For you will certainly not leave those looking for you, O Jehovah.
<H<'>H> [Za'yin]
11 Make melody, YOU people, to Jehovah, who is dwelling in Zion;
Tell among the peoples his deeds.
12 For, when looking for bloodshed, he will certainly remember those very
ones;
He is sure not to forget the outcry of the afflicted ones.
<H<(>H> [Chehth]
13 Show me favor, O Jehovah; see my affliction by those hating me,
O you who are lifting me up from the gates of death,
14 In order that I may declare all your praiseworthy deeds
In the gates of the daughter of Zion,
That I may be joyful in your salvation.
<H< )>H> [Tehth]
15 The nations have sunk down into the pit that they have made;
In the net that they hid, their own foot has been caught.
16 Jehovah is known by the judgment that he has executed.
By the activity of his own hands the wicked one has been ensnared.
Hig·ga'ion. Se'lah.
<H<*>H> [Yohdh]
17 Wicked people will turn back to She'ol,
Even all the nations forgetting God.
18 For not always will the poor one be forgotten,
Nor will the hope of the meek ones ever perish.
<H<+>H> [Kaph]
19 Do arise, O Jehovah! Let not mortal man prove superior in strength.
Let the nations be judged before your face.
20 Do put fear into them, O Jehovah,
That the nations may know that they are but mortal men. Se'lah.
<H<->H> [La'medh]
10 Why, O Jehovah, do you keep standing afar off?
[Why] do you keep yourself hid in times of distress?
2 In his haughtiness the wicked one hotly pursues the afflicted one;
They get caught by the ideas that they have thought up.
3 For the wicked has praised himself over the selfish longing of his soul,
And the one making undue profit has blessed himself;
<H<0>H> [Nun]
He has disrespected Jehovah.
4 The wicked one according to his superciliousness makes no search;
All his ideas are: "There is no God."
5 His ways keep prospering all the time.
Your judicial decisions are high up out of his range;
As for all those showing hostility to him, he puffs at them.
6 He has said in his heart: "I shall not be made to totter;
For generation after generation [I shall be] one who is in no calamity."
<H<4>H> [Pe´]
7 His mouth is full of oaths and of deceptions and of oppression.
Under his tongue are trouble and what is hurtful.
8 He sits in an ambush of settlements;
From concealed places he will kill someone innocent.
<H<3>H> ['A'yin]
His eyes are on the lookout for someone unfortunate.
9 He keeps lying in wait in the concealed place like a lion in his covert.
He keeps lying in wait to carry off some afflicted one by force.
He carries off the afflicted one by force when he draws his net shut.
10 He is crushed, he bows down,
And the army of dejected ones has to fall into his strong [claws].
11 He has said in his heart: "God has forgotten.
He has concealed his face.
He will certainly never see [it]."
<H<8>H> [Qohph]
12 Do arise, O Jehovah. O God, lift up your hand.
Do not forget the afflicted ones.
13 Why is it that the wicked one has disrespected God?
He has said in his heart: "You will not require an accounting."
<H<9>H> [Rehsh]
14 For you yourself have seen trouble and vexation.
You keep looking on, to get [them] into your hand.
To you the unfortunate one, the fatherless boy, commits [himself].
You yourself have become [his] helper.
<H<:>H> [Shin]
15 Break the arm of the wicked and bad one.
May you search after his wickedness [until] you find no more.
16 Jehovah is King to time indefinite, even forever.
The nations have perished out of his earth.
<H<<>H> [Taw]
17 The desire of the meek ones you will certainly hear, O Jehovah.
You will prepare their heart.
You will pay attention with your ear,
18 To judge the fatherless boy and the crushed one,
That mortal man who is of the earth may no more cause trembling.
To the director. Of David.
11 In Jehovah I have taken refuge.
How dare YOU men say to my soul:
"Flee as a bird to YOUR mountain!"
2 For, look! the wicked ones themselves bend the bow,
They do make ready their arrow upon the bowstring,
To shoot in the gloom at the ones upright in heart.
3 When the foundations themselves are torn down,
What must anyone righteous do?
4 Jehovah is in his holy temple.
Jehovah-in the heavens is his throne.
His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men.
5 Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
And anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.
6 He will rain down upon the wicked ones traps, fire and sulphur
And a scorching wind, as the portion of their cup.
7 For Jehovah is righteous; he does love righteous acts.
The upright are the ones that will behold his face.
To the director on the lower octave. A melody of David.
12 Do save [me], O Jehovah, for the loyal one has come to an end;
For faithful people have vanished from the sons of men.
2 Untruth they keep speaking one to the other;
With a smooth lip they keep speaking even with a double heart.
3 Jehovah will cut off all smooth lips,
The tongue speaking great things,
4 Those who have said: "With our tongue we shall prevail.
Our lips are with us. Who will be a master to us?"
5 "Because of the despoiling of the afflicted ones, because of the sighing
of the poor ones,
I shall at this time arise," says Jehovah.
"I shall put [him] in safety from anyone that puffs at him."
6 The sayings of Jehovah are pure sayings,
As silver refined in a smelting furnace of earth, clarified seven times.
7 You yourself, O Jehovah, will guard them;
You will preserve each one from this generation to time indefinite.
8 The wicked ones walk all around,
Because vileness is exalted among the sons of men.
To the director. A melody of David.
13 How long, O Jehovah, will you forget me? Forever?
How long will you conceal your face from me?
2 How long shall I set resistance in my soul,
Grief in my heart by day?
How long will my enemy be exalted over me?
3 Do look [upon me]; answer me, O Jehovah my God.
Do make my eyes shine, that I may not fall asleep in death,
4 That my enemy may not say: "I have won out over him!"
[That] my adversaries themselves may [not] be joyful because I am made to
stagger.
5 As for me, in your loving-kindness I have trusted;
Let my heart be joyful in your salvation.
6 I will sing to Jehovah, for he has dealt rewardingly with me.
To the director. Of David.
14 The senseless one has said in his heart:
"There is no Jehovah."
They have acted ruinously, they have acted detestably in [their] dealing.
There is no one doing good.
2 As for Jehovah, he has looked down from heaven itself upon the sons of
men,
To see whether there exists anyone having insight, anyone seeking Jehovah.
3 They have all turned aside, they are [all] alike corrupt;
There is no one doing good,
Not even one.
4 Have none of the practicers of what is hurtful got knowledge,
Eating up my people as they have eaten bread?
They have not called even upon Jehovah.
5 There they were filled with a great dread,
For Jehovah is among the generation of the righteous one.
6 The counsel of the afflicted one YOU people would put to shame,
Because Jehovah is his refuge.
7 O that out of Zion there were the salvation of Israel!
When Jehovah gathers back the captive ones of his people,
Let Jacob be joyful, let Israel rejoice.
A melody of David.
15 O Jehovah, who will be a guest in your tent?
Who will reside in your holy mountain?
2 He who is walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness
And speaking the truth in his heart.
3 He has not slandered with his tongue.
To his companion he has done nothing bad,
And no reproach has he taken up against his intimate acquaintance.
4 In his eyes anyone contemptible is certainly rejected,
But those fearing Jehovah he honors.
He has sworn to what is bad [for himself], and yet he does not alter.
5 His money he has not given out on interest,
And a bribe against the innocent one he has not taken.
He that is doing these things will never be made to totter.
A mik'tam of David.
16 Keep me, O God, for I have taken refuge in you.
2 I have said to Jehovah: "You are Jehovah; my goodness is, not for your
sake,
3 [But] to the holy ones that are in the earth.
They, even the majestic ones, are the ones in whom is all my delight."
4 Pains become many to those [who], when there is someone else, do hurry
[after him].
I shall not pour out their drink offerings of blood,
And I shall not carry their names upon my lips.
5 Jehovah is the portion of my allotted share and of my cup.
You are holding fast my lot.
6 The measuring lines themselves have fallen for me in pleasant places.
Really, [my own] possession has proved agreeable to me.
7 I shall bless Jehovah, who has given me advice.
Really, during the nights my kidneys have corrected me.
8 I have placed Jehovah in front of me constantly.
Because [he] is at my right hand, I shall not be made to totter.
9 Therefore my heart does rejoice, and my glory is inclined to be joyful.
Also, my own flesh will reside in security.
10 For you will not leave my soul in She'ol.
You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.
11 You will cause me to know the path of life.
Rejoicing to satisfaction is with your face;
There is pleasantness at your right hand forever.
A prayer of David.
17 Do hear what is righteous, O Jehovah; do pay attention to my entreating
cry;
Do give ear to my prayer without lips of deception.
2 From before you may my judgment go forth;
May your own eyes behold uprightness.
3 You have examined my heart, you have made inspection by night,
You have refined me; you will discover [that] I have not schemed.
My mouth will not transgress.
4 As for the activities of men,
By the word of your lips I myself have watched against the paths of the
robber.
5 Let my steps take hold on your tracks,
[In which] my footsteps will certainly not be made to totter.
6 I myself do call upon you, because you will answer me, O God.
Incline your ear to me. Hear my saying.
7 Make your acts of loving-kindnesses wonderful, O Savior of those seeking
refuge
From the revolters against your right hand.
8 Keep me as the pupil of the eyeball,
In the shadow of your wings may you conceal me,
9 Because of the wicked who have despoiled me.
The enemies against my soul themselves keep closing in upon me.
10 They have enclosed [themselves] with their own fat;
With their mouth they have spoken in haughtiness;
11 As regards our steps, now they have surrounded us;
They fix their eyes to incline to the earth.
12 His likeness is that of a lion that yearns to tear to pieces
And that of a young lion sitting in concealed places.
13 Do rise up, O Jehovah; do confront him to the face;
Make him bow down; do provide escape for my soul from the wicked one with
your sword,
14 From men, [by] your hand, O Jehovah,
From men of [this] system of things, whose share is in [this] life,
And whose belly you fill with your concealed treasure,
Who are satisfied with sons
And who do lay up for their children what they leave over.
15 As for me, in righteousness I shall behold your face;
I will be satisfied when awakening [to see] your form.
To the director. Of Jehovah's servant, of David, who spoke to Jehovah the
words of this song in the day that Jehovah had delivered him out of the palm
of all his enemies and out of the hand of Saul. And he proceeded to say:
18 I shall have affection for you, O Jehovah my strength.
2 Jehovah is my crag and my stronghold and the Provider of escape for me.
My God is my rock. I shall take refuge in him,
My shield and my horn of salvation, my secure height.
3 On the One to be praised, Jehovah, I shall call,
And from my enemies I shall be saved.
4 The ropes of death encircled me;
Flash floods of good-for-nothing [men] also kept terrifying me.
5 The very ropes of She'ol surrounded me;
The snares of death confronted me.
6 In my distress I kept calling upon Jehovah,
And to my God I kept crying for help.
Out of his temple he proceeded to hear my voice,
And my own cry before him for help now came into his ears.
7 And the earth began to shake and rock,
And the foundations of the mountains themselves became agitated,
And they kept shaking back and forth because he had been angered.
8 Smoke went up at his nostrils, and fire itself from his mouth kept
devouring;
Coals themselves blazed forth from him.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
And some more -- whoohooo -- Judges
1 And after the death of Joshua it came about that the sons of Israel
proceeded to inquire of Jehovah, saying: "Who of us will go up first to the
Ca'naan·ites to fight against them?" 2 To this Jehovah said: "Judah will go
up. Look! I shall certainly give the land into his hand." 3 Then Judah said
to Sim'e·on his brother: "Come up with me into my lot and let us fight
against the Ca'naan·ites, and I myself in turn will go with you into your
lot." Accordingly Sim'e·on went with him.
4 With that Judah went on up and Jehovah gave the Ca'naan·ites and the
Per'iz·zites into their hands, so that they defeated them in Be'zek, ten
thousand men. 5 When they found A·do'ni-be'zek in Be'zek, then they fought
against him and defeated the Ca'naan·ites and the Per'iz·zites. 6 When
A·do'ni-be'zek took to flight, then they went chasing after him and got hold
of him and cut off the thumbs of his hands and the great toes of his feet. 7
At this A·do'ni-be'zek said: "There have been seventy kings with the thumbs
of their hands and the great toes of their feet cut off picking up food
under my table. Just the way I have done, so God has repaid me." After that
they brought him to Jerusalem and he died there.
8 Furthermore, the sons of Judah carried on war against Jerusalem and got to
capture it, and they went striking it with the edge of the sword, and the
city they consigned to the fire. 9 And afterward the sons of Judah went down
to fight against the Ca'naan·ites inhabiting the mountainous region and the
Neg'eb and the She·phe'lah. 10 So Judah marched against the Ca'naan·ites who
were dwelling in He'bron (now the name of He'bron before that was
Kir'i·ath-ar'ba), and they went striking down She'shai and A·hi'man and
Tal'mai.
11 And they marched on from there against the inhabitants of De'bir. (Now
the name of De'bir before that was Kir'i·ath-se'pher.) 12 Then Ca'leb said:
"Whoever strikes Kir'i·ath-se'pher and does capture it, why, I will give him
Ach'sah my daughter as a wife." 13 And Oth'ni·el the son of Ke'naz, Ca'leb's
younger brother, got to capture it. For that he gave him Ach'sah his
daughter as a wife. 14 And it came about that while she was going home, she
kept inciting him to ask a field from her father. Then she clapped her hands
while upon the ass. At this Ca'leb said to her: "What do you want?" 15 So
she said to him: "Do grant me a blessing, for it is a southern piece of land
you have given me, and you must give me Gul'loth-ma'im." Accordingly Ca'leb
gave her Upper Gul'loth and Lower Gul'loth.
16 And the sons of the Ken'ite, whose son-in-law Moses was, came up out of
the city of palm trees with the sons of Judah to the wilderness of Judah,
which is to the south of A'rad. Then they went and took up dwelling with the
people. 17 But Judah marched on with Sim'e·on his brother, and they
proceeded to strike the Ca'naan·ites inhabiting Ze'phath and to devote it to
destruction. Hence the name of the city was called Hor'mah. 18 After that
Judah captured Ga'za and its territory and Ash'ke·lon and its territory and
Ek'ron and its territory. 19 And Jehovah continued with Judah, so that he
took possession of the mountainous region, but he could not dispossess the
inhabitants of the low plain, because they had war chariots with iron
scythes. 20 When they gave Ca'leb He'bron, just as Moses had promised, then
he drove out from there the three sons of A'nak.
21 And the sons of Benjamin did not drive out the Jeb'u·sites inhabiting
Jerusalem; but the Jeb'u·sites keep on dwelling with the sons of Benjamin in
Jerusalem down to this day.
22 Meantime the house of Joseph itself also went up against Beth'el, and
Jehovah was with them. 23 And the house of Joseph began to spy on Beth'el
(incidentally, the name of the city before that was Luz), 24 and the
watchers got to see a man going out of the city. So they said to him: "Show
us, please, the way to get into the city, and we shall certainly exercise
kindness toward you." 25 Accordingly the man showed them the way to get into
the city; and they went striking the city with the edge of the sword, but
the man and all his family they let go. 26 Upon that the man went to the
land of the Hit'tites and built a city and called its name Luz. That is its
name down to this day.
27 And Ma·nas'seh did not take possession of Beth-she'an and its dependent
towns and Ta'a·nach and its dependent towns and the inhabitants of Dor and
its dependent towns and the inhabitants of Ib'le·am and its dependent towns
and the inhabitants of Me·gid'do and its dependent towns, but the
Ca'naan·ites persisted in dwelling in this land. 28 And it came about that
Israel grew strong and proceeded to set the Ca'naan·ites to forced labor,
and they did not drive them out completely.
29 Neither did E'phra·im drive out the Ca'naan·ites who were dwelling in
Ge'zer, but the Ca'naan·ites continued to dwell in among them in Ge'zer.
30 Zeb'u·lun did not drive out the inhabitants of Kit'ron and the
inhabitants of Na'ha·lol, but the Ca'naan·ites continued to dwell in among
them and came to be subject to forced labor.
31 Ash'er did not drive out the inhabitants of Ac'co and the inhabitants of
Si'don and Ah'lab and Ach'zib and Hel'bah and A'phik and Re'hob. 32 And the
Ash'er·ites continued to dwell in among the Ca'naan·ites inhabiting the
land, because they did not drive them out.
33 Naph'ta·li did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-she'mesh and the
inhabitants of Beth-a'nath, but they continued to dwell in among the
Ca'naan·ites inhabiting the land; and the inhabitants of Beth-she'mesh and
of Beth-a'nath became theirs for forced labor.
34 And the Am'or·ites kept pressing the sons of Dan into the mountainous
region, for they did not allow them to come down into the low plain. 35 So
the Am'or·ites persisted in dwelling in Mount He'res and in Ai'ja·lon and
Sha·al'bim. But the hand of the house of Joseph got to be so heavy that they
were forced into task work. 36 And the territory of the Am'or·ites was from
the ascent of A·krab'bim, from Se'la upward.
2 Then Jehovah's angel went up from Gil'gal to Bo'chim and said: "I
proceeded to bring YOU up out of Egypt and to bring YOU into the land about
which I swore to YOUR forefathers. Furthermore, I said, 'Never shall I break
my covenant with YOU. 2 And for YOUR part, YOU must not conclude a covenant
with the inhabitants of this land. Their altars YOU should pull down.' But
YOU have not listened to my voice. Why have YOU done this? 3 So I, in turn,
have said, 'I shall not drive them away from before YOU, and they must
become snares to YOU, and their gods will serve as a lure to YOU.'"
4 And it came about that as soon as Jehovah's angel had spoken these words
to all the sons of Israel, the people began to raise their voices and weep.
5 Hence they called the name of that place Bo'chim. And they proceeded to
sacrifice there to Jehovah.
6 When Joshua sent the people away, then the sons of Israel went their way,
each to his inheritance, to take possession of the land. 7 And the people
continued to serve Jehovah all the days of Joshua and all the days of the
older men who extended their days after Joshua and who had seen all of
Jehovah's great work that he did for Israel. 8 Then Joshua the son of Nun,
the servant of Jehovah, died at the age of a hundred and ten years. 9 So
they buried him in the territory of his inheritance in Tim'nath-he'res in
the mountainous region of E'phra·im, on the north of Mount Ga'ash. 10 And
all that generation too were gathered to their fathers, and another
generation began to rise after them that did not know Jehovah or the work
that he had done for Israel.
11 And the sons of Israel fell to doing what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah
and serving the Ba'als. 12 Thus they abandoned Jehovah the God of their
fathers who had brought them out of the land of Egypt and went following
other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were all around them and
they began bowing down to them, so that they offended Jehovah. 13 Thus they
abandoned Jehovah and took up serving Ba'al and the Ash'to·reth images. 14
At this Jehovah's anger blazed against Israel, so that he gave them into the
hands of the pillagers, and they began to pillage them; and he proceeded to
sell them into the hand of their enemies round about, and they were no
longer able to stand before their enemies. 15 Everywhere that they went out,
the hand of Jehovah proved to be against them for calamity, just as Jehovah
had spoken and just as Jehovah had sworn to them; and they got to be in very
sore straits. 16 So Jehovah would raise up judges, and they would save them
out of the hand of their pillagers.
17 And even to their judges they did not listen, but they had immoral
intercourse with other gods and went bowing down to them. They quickly
turned aside from the way in which their forefathers had walked by obeying
the commandments of Jehovah. They did not do like that. 18 And when Jehovah
did raise up judges for them, Jehovah proved to be with the judge, and he
saved them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for
Jehovah would feel regret over their groaning because of their oppressors
and those who were shoving them around.
19 And it occurred that when the judge died they would turn around and act
more ruinously than their fathers by walking after other gods to serve them
and bow down to them. They did not refrain from their practices and their
stubborn behavior. 20 Finally Jehovah's anger blazed against Israel and he
said: "For the reason that this nation have overstepped my covenant that I
commanded their forefathers and have not listened to my voice, 21 I too, for
my part, shall not drive out again from before them a single one of the
nations that Joshua left behind when he died, 22 in order by them to test
Israel, whether they will be keepers of Jehovah's way by walking in it just
as their fathers kept it, or not." 23 Accordingly Jehovah let these nations
stay by not driving them out quickly, and he did not give them into Joshua's
hand.
3 Now these are the nations that Jehovah let stay so as by them to test
Israel, that is, all those who had not experienced any of the wars of
Ca'naan; 2 it was only in order for the generations of the sons of Israel to
have the experience, so as to teach them war, that is, only those who before
that had not experienced such things: 3 The five axis lords of the
Phi·lis'tines, and all the Ca'naan·ites, even the Si·do'ni·ans and the
Hi'vites inhabiting Mount Leb'a·non from Mount Ba'al-her'mon as far as to
the entering in of Ha'math. 4 And they kept serving as agents to test Israel
so as to know whether they would obey Jehovah's commandments that he had
commanded their fathers by means of Moses. 5 And the sons of Israel dwelt in
among the Ca'naan·ites, the Hit'tites and the Am'or·ites and the
Per'iz·zites and the Hi'vites and the Jeb'u·sites. 6 And they proceeded to
take their daughters as wives for themselves, and their own daughters they
gave to their sons, and they took up serving their gods.
7 So the sons of Israel did what was bad in Jehovah's eyes, and they were
forgetful of Jehovah their God and went serving the Ba'als and the sacred
poles. 8 At this Jehovah's anger blazed against Israel, so that he sold them
into the hand of Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im the king of Mes·o·po·ta'mi·a; and the
sons of Israel continued to serve Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im eight years. 9 And
the sons of Israel began to call to Jehovah for aid. Then Jehovah raised a
savior up for the sons of Israel that he might save them, Oth'ni·el the son
of Ke'naz, the younger brother of Ca'leb. 10 The spirit of Jehovah now came
upon him, and he became the judge of Israel. When he went out to battle,
then Jehovah gave Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im the king of Syria into his hand so
that his hand overpowered Cu'shan-rish·a·tha'im. 11 After that the land had
no disturbance for forty years. Eventually Oth'ni·el the son of Ke'naz died.
12 And once again the sons of Israel went doing what was bad in Jehovah's
eyes. At that Jehovah let Eg'lon the king of Mo'ab grow strong against
Israel, because they did what was bad in Jehovah's eyes. 13 Furthermore, he
gathered against them the sons of Am'mon and Am'a·lek. Then they went and
struck Israel and took possession of the city of palm trees. 14 And the sons
of Israel continued to serve Eg'lon the king of Mo'ab eighteen years. 15 And
the sons of Israel began to call to Jehovah for aid. So Jehovah raised up
for them a savior, E'hud the son of Ge'ra, a Ben'ja·mite, a left-handed man.
In time the sons of Israel sent tribute by his hand to Eg'lon the king of
Mo'ab. 16 Meanwhile E'hud made a sword for himself, and it had two edges,
its length being a cubit. Then he girded it underneath his garment upon his
right thigh. 17 And he proceeded to present the tribute to Eg'lon the king
of Mo'ab. Now Eg'lon was a very fat man.
18 And it came about that when he had finished presenting the tribute, he at
once sent the people away, the bearers of the tribute. 19 And he himself
turned back at the quarries that were at Gil'gal, and he proceeded to say:
"I have a secret word for you, O king." So he said: "Keep silence!" With
that all those who were standing by him went on out from him. 20 And E'hud
came to him as he was sitting in his cool roof chamber that he had to
himself. And E'hud went on to say: "A word of God I have for you." At that
he rose up from his throne. 21 Then E'hud thrust in his left hand and took
the sword off his right thigh and plunged it into his belly. 22 And the
handle kept going in also after the blade so that the fat closed in over the
blade, for he did not draw the sword out of his belly, and the fecal matter
began to come out. 23 And E'hud proceeded to go out through the air hole,
but he closed the doors of the roof chamber behind him and locked them. 24
And he himself went out.
And his servants came and began looking, and there the doors of the roof
chamber were locked. So they said: "He is just easing nature in the cool
interior room." 25 And they kept waiting until they were ashamed, and, look!
there was no one opening the doors of the roof chamber. At this they took
the key and opened them, and, look! their lord was fallen to the earth dead!
26 As for E'hud, he escaped while they were lingering, and he himself passed
by the quarries and made his escape to Se·i'rah. 27 And it came about that
when he got there he began blowing the horn in the mountainous region of
E'phra·im; and the sons of Israel began going down with him out of the
mountainous region, he being at their head. 28 Then he said to them: "Follow
me, because Jehovah has given YOUR enemies, the Mo'ab·ites, into YOUR hand."
And they went following him and got to capture the fords of the Jordan
against the Mo'ab·ites, and they did not allow anybody to pass over. 29 And
at that time they went striking down Mo'ab, about ten thousand men, every
one robust and every one a valiant man; and not a single one escaped. 30 And
Mo'ab came to be subdued on that day under Israel's hand; and the land had
no further disturbance for eighty years.
31 And after him there proved to be Sham'gar the son of A'nath, and he went
striking down the Phi·lis'tines, six hundred men, with a cattle goad; and he
too got to save Israel.
4 Then the sons of Israel again began to do what was bad in Jehovah's eyes
now that E'hud was dead. 2 So Jehovah sold them into the hand of Ja'bin the
king of Ca'naan, who reigned in Ha'zor; and the chief of his army was
Sis'e·ra, and he was dwelling in Ha·ro'sheth of the nations. 3 And the sons
of Israel began to cry out to Jehovah, because he had nine hundred war
chariots with iron scythes, and he himself oppressed the sons of Israel with
harshness twenty years.
4 Now Deb'o·rah, a prophetess, the wife of Lap'pi·doth, was judging Israel
at that particular time. 5 And she was dwelling under Deb'o·rah's palm tree
between Ra'mah and Beth'el in the mountainous region of E'phra·im; and the
sons of Israel would go up to her for judgment. 6 And she proceeded to send
and call Ba'rak the son of A·bin'o·am out of Ke'desh-naph'ta·li and to say
to him: "Has not Jehovah the God of Israel given the command? 'Go and you
must spread yourself out on Mount Ta'bor, and you must take with you ten
thousand men out of the sons of Naph'ta·li and out of the sons of Zeb'u·lun.
7 And I shall certainly draw to you at the torrent valley of Ki'shon
Sis'e·ra the chief of Ja'bin's army and his war chariots and his crowd, and
I shall indeed give him into your hand.'"
8 At this Ba'rak said to her: "If you will go with me, I also shall
certainly go; but if you will not go with me, I shall not go." 9 To this she
said: "Without fail I shall go with you. Just the same, the beautifying
thing will not become yours on the way that you are going, for it will be
into the hand of a woman that Jehovah will sell Sis'e·ra." With that
Deb'o·rah got up and went with Ba'rak to Ke'desh. 10 And Ba'rak began to
call Zeb'u·lun and Naph'ta·li together to Ke'desh, and ten thousand men went
on up following his steps; and Deb'o·rah went on up with him.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:08 AM
And how about this learn a few things from ... Proverbs
1 The proverbs of Sol'o·mon the son of David, the king of Israel, 2 for one
to know wisdom and discipline, to discern the sayings of understanding, 3 to
receive the discipline that gives insight, righteousness and judgment and
uprightness, 4 to give to the inexperienced ones shrewdness, to a young man
knowledge and thinking ability.
5 A wise person will listen and take in more instruction, and a man of
understanding is the one who acquires skillful direction, 6 to understand a
proverb and a puzzling saying, the words of wise persons and their riddles.
7 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge. Wisdom and discipline
are what mere fools have despised.
8 Listen, my son, to the discipline of your father, and do not forsake the
law of your mother. 9 For they are a wreath of attractiveness to your head
and a fine necklace to your throat.
10 My son, if sinners try to seduce you, do not consent. 11 If they keep
saying: "Do go with us. Do let us lie in ambush for blood. Do let us lie in
concealment for the innocent men without any cause. 12 Let us swallow them
down alive just like She'ol, even whole, like those going down into a pit.
13 Let us find all sorts of precious valuables. Let us fill our houses with
spoil. 14 Your lot you ought to cast in among us. Let there come to be just
one bag belonging to all of us"- 15 my son, do not go in the way with them.
Hold back your foot from their roadway. 16 For their feet are those that run
to sheer badness, and they keep hastening to shed blood. 17 For it is for
nothing that the net is spread before the eyes of anything owning wings. 18
Consequently they themselves lie in ambush for the very blood of these; they
lie in concealment for their souls. 19 Thus are the paths of everyone making
unjust profit. It takes away the very soul of its owners.
20 True wisdom itself keeps crying aloud in the very street. In the public
squares it keeps giving forth its voice. 21 At the upper end of the noisy
streets it calls out. At the entrances of the gates into the city it says
its own sayings:
22 "How long will YOU inexperienced ones keep loving inexperience, and [how
long] must YOU ridiculers desire for yourselves outright ridicule, and [how
long] will YOU stupid ones keep hating knowledge? 23 Turn back at my
reproof. Then to YOU I will cause my spirit to bubble forth; I will make my
words known to YOU. 24 Because I have called out but YOU keep refusing, I
have stretched out my hand but there is no one paying attention, 25 and YOU
keep neglecting all my counsel, and my reproof YOU have not accepted, 26 I
also, for my part, shall laugh at YOUR own disaster, I shall mock when what
YOU dread comes, 27 when what YOU dread comes just like a storm, and YOUR
own disaster gets here just like a storm wind, when distress and hard times
come upon YOU. 28 At that time they will keep calling me, but I shall not
answer; they will keep looking for me, but they will not find me, 29 for the
reason that they hated knowledge, and the fear of Jehovah they did not
choose. 30 They did not consent to my counsel; they disrespected all my
reproof. 31 So they will eat from the fruitage of their way, and they will
be glutted with their own counsels. 32 For the renegading of the
inexperienced ones is what will kill them, and the easygoingness of the
stupid is what will destroy them. 33 As for the one listening to me, he will
reside in security and be undisturbed from dread of calamity."
2 My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments
with yourself, 2 so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you
may incline your heart to discernment; 3 if, moreover, you call out for
understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, 4
if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep
searching for it, 5 in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah,
and you will find the very knowledge of God. 6 For Jehovah himself gives
wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment. 7 And for the
upright ones he will treasure up practical wisdom; for those walking in
integrity he is a shield, 8 by observing the paths of judgment, and he will
guard the very way of his loyal ones. 9 In that case you will understand
righteousness and judgment and uprightness, the entire course of what is
good.
10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant
to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you,
discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way,
from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of
uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing
in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness; 15 those
whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their general course; 16 to
deliver you from the strange woman, from the foreign woman who has made her
own sayings smooth, 17 who is leaving the confidential friend of her youth
and who has forgotten the very covenant of her God. 18 For down to death her
house does sink and down to those impotent in death her tracks. 19 None of
those having relations with her will come back, nor will they regain the
paths of those living.
20 The purpose is that you may walk in the way of good people and that the
paths of the righteous ones you may keep. 21 For the upright are the ones
that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be
left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the
very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.
3 My son, my law do not forget, and my commandments may your heart observe,
2 because length of days and years of life and peace will be added to you. 3
May loving-kindness and trueness themselves not leave you. Tie them about
your throat. Write them upon the tablet of your heart, 4 and so find favor
and good insight in the eyes of God and of earthling man. 5 Trust in Jehovah
with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. 6 In all
your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight.
7 Do not become wise in your own eyes. Fear Jehovah and turn away from bad.
8 May it become a healing to your navel and a refreshment to your bones.
9 Honor Jehovah with your valuable things and with the firstfruits of all
your produce. 10 Then your stores of supply will be filled with plenty; and
with new wine your own press vats will overflow.
11 The discipline of Jehovah, O my son, do not reject; and do not abhor his
reproof, 12 because the one whom Jehovah loves he reproves, even as a father
does a son in whom he finds pleasure.
13 Happy is the man that has found wisdom, and the man that gets
discernment, 14 for having it as gain is better than having silver as gain
and having it as produce than gold itself. 15 It is more precious than
corals, and all other delights of yours cannot be made equal to it. 16
Length of days is in its right hand; in its left hand there are riches and
glory. 17 Its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all its roadways are peace.
18 It is a tree of life to those taking hold of it, and those keeping fast
hold of it are to be called happy.
19 Jehovah himself in wisdom founded the earth. He solidly fixed the heavens
in discernment. 20 By his knowledge the watery deeps themselves were split
apart, and the cloudy skies keep dripping down light rain. 21 My son, may
they not get away from your eyes. Safeguard practical wisdom and thinking
ability, 22 and they will prove to be life to your soul and charm to your
throat. 23 In that case you will walk in security on your way, and even your
foot will not strike against anything. 24 Whenever you lie down you will
feel no dread; and you will certainly lie down, and your sleep must be
pleasurable. 25 You will not need to be afraid of any sudden dreadful thing,
nor of the storm upon the wicked ones, because it is coming. 26 For Jehovah
himself will prove to be, in effect, your confidence, and he will certainly
keep your foot against capture.
27 Do not hold back good from those to whom it is owing, when it happens to
be in the power of your hand to do [it]. 28 Do not say to your fellowman:
"Go, and come back and tomorrow I shall give," when there is something with
you. 29 Do not fabricate against your fellowman anything bad, when he is
dwelling in a sense of security with you. 30 Do not quarrel with a man
without cause, if he has rendered no bad to you.
31 Do not become envious of the man of violence, nor choose any of his ways.
32 For the devious person is a detestable thing to Jehovah, but His intimacy
is with the upright ones. 33 The curse of Jehovah is on the house of the
wicked one, but the abiding place of the righteous ones he blesses. 34 If it
has to do with ridiculers, he himself will deride; but to the meek ones he
will show favor. 35 Honor is what the wise ones will come to possess, but
the stupid ones are exalting dishonor.
4 Listen, O sons, to the discipline of a father and pay attention, so as to
know understanding. 2 For good instruction is what I certainly shall give to
YOU. My law DO not leave. 3 For I proved to be a real son to my father,
tender and the only one before my mother. 4 And he would instruct me and say
to me: "May your heart keep fast hold of my words. Keep my commandments and
continue living. 5 Acquire wisdom, acquire understanding. Do not forget, and
do not turn aside from the sayings of my mouth. 6 Do not leave it, and it
will keep you. Love it, and it will safeguard you. 7 Wisdom is the prime
thing. Acquire wisdom; and with all that you acquire, acquire understanding.
8 Highly esteem it, and it will exalt you. It will glorify you because you
embrace it. 9 To your head it will give a wreath of charm; a crown of beauty
it will bestow upon you."
10 Hear, my son, and accept my sayings. Then for you the years of life will
become many. 11 I will instruct you even in the way of wisdom; I will cause
you to tread in the tracks of uprightness. 12 When you walk, your pace will
not be cramped; and if you run, you will not stumble. 13 Take hold on
discipline; do not let go. Safeguard it, for it itself is your life.
14 Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight
on into the way of the bad ones. 15 Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn
aside from it, and pass along. 16 For they do not sleep unless they do
badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to
stumble. 17 For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and
the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. 18 But the path of the
righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter
until the day is firmly established. 19 The way of the wicked ones is like
the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling.
20 My son, to my words do pay attention. To my sayings incline your ear. 21
May they not get away from your eyes. Keep them in the midst of your heart.
22 For they are life to those finding them and health to all their flesh. 23
More than all else that is to be guarded, safeguard your heart, for out of
it are the sources of life. 24 Remove from yourself the crookedness of
speech; and the deviousness of lips put far away from yourself. 25 As for
your eyes, straight ahead they should look, yes, your own beaming eyes
should gaze straight in front of you. 26 Smooth out the course of your foot,
and may all your own ways be firmly established. 27 Do not incline to the
right hand or to the left. Remove your foot from what is bad.
5 My son, to my wisdom O do pay attention. To my discernment incline your
ears, 2 so as to guard thinking abilities; and may your own lips safeguard
knowledge itself.
3 For as a honeycomb the lips of a strange woman keep dripping, and her
palate is smoother than oil. 4 But the aftereffect from her is as bitter as
wormwood; it is as sharp as a two-edged sword. 5 Her feet are descending to
death. Her very steps take hold on She'ol itself. 6 The path of life she
does not contemplate. Her tracks have wandered she does not know [where]. 7
So now, O sons, listen to me and do not turn away from the sayings of my
mouth. 8 Keep your way far off from alongside her, and do not get near to
the entrance of her house, 9 that you may not give to others your dignity,
nor your years to what is cruel; 10 that strangers may not satisfy
themselves with your power, nor the things you got by pain be in the house
of a foreigner, 11 nor you have to groan in your future when your flesh and
your organism come to an end. 12 And you will have to say: "How I have hated
discipline and my heart has disrespected even reproof! 13 And I have not
listened to the voice of my instructors, and to my teachers I have not
inclined my ear. 14 Easily I have come to be in every sort of badness in the
midst of the congregation and of the assembly."
15 Drink water out of your own cistern, and tricklings out of the midst of
your own well. 16 Should your springs be scattered out of doors, [your]
streams of water in the public squares themselves? 17 Let them prove to be
for you alone, and not for strangers with you. 18 Let your water source
prove to be blessed, and rejoice with the wife of your youth, 19 a lovable
hind and a charming mountain goat. Let her own breasts intoxicate you at all
times. With her love may you be in an ecstasy constantly. 20 So why should
you, my son, be in an ecstasy with a strange woman or embrace the bosom of a
foreign woman? 21 For the ways of man are in front of the eyes of Jehovah,
and he is contemplating all his tracks. 22 His own errors will catch the
wicked one, and in the ropes of his own sin he will be taken hold of. 23 He
will be the one to die because there is no discipline, and [because] in the
abundance of his foolishness he goes astray.
6 My son, if you have gone surety for your fellowman, [if] you have given
your handshake even to the stranger, 2 [if] you have been ensnared by the
sayings of your mouth, [if] you have been caught by the sayings of your
mouth, 3 take this action then, my son, and deliver yourself, for you have
come into the palm of your fellowman: Go humble yourself and storm your
fellowman with importunities. 4 Do not give any sleep to your eyes, nor any
slumber to your beaming eyes. 5 Deliver yourself like a gazelle from the
hand and like a bird from the hand of the birdcatcher.
6 Go to the ant, you lazy one; see its ways and become wise. 7 Although it
has no commander, officer or ruler, 8 it prepares its food even in the
summer; it has gathered its food supplies even in the harvest. 9 How long,
you lazy one, will you keep lying down? When will you rise up from your
sleep? 10 A little more sleep, a little more slumbering, a little more
folding of the hands in lying down, 11 and your poverty will certainly come
just like some rover, and your want like an armed man.
12 A good-for-nothing man, a man of hurtfulness, is walking with crookedness
of speech, 13 winking with his eye, making signs with his foot, making
indications with his fingers. 14 Perverseness is in his heart. He is
fabricating something bad all the time. He keeps sending out merely
contentions. 15 That is why suddenly there will come his disaster; in an
instant he will be broken, and there will be no healing.
16 There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things
detestable to his soul: 17 lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are
shedding innocent blood, 18 a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that
are in a hurry to run to badness, 19 a false witness that launches forth
lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.
20 Observe, O my son, the commandment of your father, and do not forsake the
law of your mother. 21 Tie them upon your heart constantly; bind them upon
your throat. 22 When you walk about, it will lead you; when you lie down, it
will stand guard over you; and when you have waked up, it itself will make
you its concern. 23 For the commandment is a lamp, and a light the law is,
and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life, 24 to guard you against
the bad woman, against the smoothness of the tongue of the foreign woman. 25
Do not desire her prettiness in your heart, and may she not take you with
her lustrous eyes, 26 because in behalf of a woman prostitute [one comes
down] to a round loaf of bread; but as regards another man's wife, she hunts
even for a precious soul. 27 Can a man rake together fire into his bosom and
yet his very garments not be burned? 28 Or can a man walk upon the coals and
his feet themselves not be scorched? 29 Likewise with anyone having
relations with the wife of his fellowman, no one touching her will remain
unpunishable. 30 People do not despise a thief just because he commits
thievery to fill his soul when he is hungry. 31 But, when found, he will
make it good with seven times as much; all the valuables of his house he
will give. 32 Anyone committing adultery with a woman is in want of heart;
he that does it is bringing his own soul to ruin. 33 A plague and dishonor
he will find, and his reproach itself will not be wiped out. 34 For the rage
of an able-bodied man is jealousy, and he will not show compassion in the
day of vengeance. 35 He will have no consideration for any sort of ransom,
neither will he show willingness, no matter how large you make the present.
7 My son, keep my sayings, and may you treasure up my own commandments with
you. 2 Keep my commandments and continue living, and my law like the pupil
of your eyes. 3 Tie them upon your fingers, and write them upon the tablet
of your heart. 4 Say to wisdom: "You are my sister"; and may you call
understanding itself "Kinswoman," 5 to guard you against the woman stranger,
against the foreigner who has made her own sayings smooth. 6 For at the
window of my house, through my lattice I looked down, 7 that I might peer
upon the inexperienced ones. I was interested in discerning among the sons a
young man in want of heart, 8 passing along on the street near her corner,
and in the way to her house he marches, 9 in the twilight, in the evening of
the day, at the approach of the night and the gloom. 10 And, look! there was
a woman to meet him, with the garment of a prostitute and cunning of heart.
11 She is boisterous and stubborn. In her house her feet do not keep
residing. 12 Now she is outdoors, now she is in the public squares, and near
every corner she lies in wait. 13 And she has grabbed hold of him and given
him a kiss. She has put on a bold face, and she begins to say to him:
14 "Communion sacrifices were incumbent upon me. Today I have paid my vows.
15 That is why I have come out to meet you, to look for your face, that I
may find you. 16 With coverlets I have bedecked my divan, with many-colored
things, linen of Egypt. 17 I have besprinkled my bed with myrrh, aloes and
cinnamon. 18 Do come, let us drink our fill of love until the morning; do
let us enjoy each other with love expressions. 19 For the husband is not in
his house; he has gone traveling on a way of some distance. 20 A bag of
money he has taken in his hand. On the day of the full moon he will come to
his house."
21 She has misled him by the abundance of her persuasiveness. By the
smoothness of her lips she seduces him. 22 All of a sudden he is going after
her, like a bull that comes even to the slaughter, and just as if fettered
for the discipline of a foolish man, 23 until an arrow cleaves open his
liver, just as a bird hastens into the trap, and he has not known that it
involves his very soul.
24 And now, O sons, listen to me and pay attention to the sayings of my
mouth. 25 May your heart not turn aside to her ways. Do not wander into her
roadways. 26 For many are the ones she has caused to fall down slain, and
all those being killed by her are numerous. 27 The ways to She'ol her house
is; they are descending to the interior rooms of death.
8 Does not wisdom keep calling out, and discernment keep giving forth its
voice? 2 On top of the heights, by the way, at the crossing of the roadways
it has stationed itself. 3 At the side of the gates, at the mouth of the
town, at the going in of the entrances it keeps crying loudly:
4 "To YOU, O men, I am calling, and my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O
inexperienced ones, understand shrewdness; and YOU stupid ones, understand
heart. 6 Listen, for it is about the foremost things that I speak, and the
opening of my lips is about uprightness. 7 For my palate in low tones utters
truth itself; and wickedness is something detestable to my lips. 8 All the
sayings of my mouth are in righteousness. Among them there is nothing
twisted or crooked. 9 All of them are straight to the discerning one, and
upright to the ones finding knowledge. 10 TAKE my discipline and not silver,
and knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than corals,
and all other delights themselves cannot be made equal to it.
12 "I, wisdom, I have resided with shrewdness and I find even the knowledge
of thinking abilities. 13 The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad.
Self-exaltation and pride and the bad way and the perverse mouth I have
hated. 14 I have counsel and practical wisdom. I-understanding; I have
mightiness. 15 By me kings themselves keep reigning, and high officials
themselves keep decreeing righteousness. 16 By me princes themselves keep
ruling as princes, and nobles are all judging in righteousness. 17 Those
loving me I myself love, and those looking for me are the ones that find me.
18 Riches and glory are with me, hereditary values and righteousness. 19 My
fruitage is better than gold, even than refined gold, and my produce than
choice silver. 20 In the path of righteousness I walk, in the middle of the
roadways of judgment, 21 to cause those loving me to take possession of
substance; and their storehouses I keep filled.
22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of
his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from
the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery
deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs
heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been
settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains,
26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first
part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the
heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery
deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the
fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his
decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he
decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a
master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day,
I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land
of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.
32 "And now, O sons, listen to me; yes, happy are the ones that keep my very
ways. 33 Listen to discipline and become wise, and do not show any neglect.
34 Happy is the man that is listening to me by keeping awake at my doors day
by day, by watching at the posts of my entrances. 35 For the one finding me
will certainly find life, and gets goodwill from Jehovah. 36 But the one
missing me is doing violence to his soul; all those intensely hating me are
the ones that do love death."
9 True wisdom has built its house; it has hewn out its seven pillars. 2 It
has organized its meat slaughtering; it has mixed its wine; more than that,
it has set in order its table. 3 It has sent forth its lady attendants, that
it may call out on top of the heights of the town: 4 "Whoever is
inexperienced, let him turn aside here." Whoever is in want of heart-she has
said to him: 5 "Come, feed yourselves with my bread and share in drinking
the wine that I have mixed. 6 Leave the inexperienced ones and keep living,
and walk straight in the way of understanding."
7 He that is correcting the ridiculer is taking to himself dishonor, and he
that is giving a reproof to someone wicked-a defect in him. 8 Do not reprove
a ridiculer, that he may not hate you. Give a reproof to a wise person and
he will love you. 9 Give to a wise person and he will become still wiser.
Impart knowledge to someone righteous and he will increase in learning.
10 The fear of Jehovah is the start of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Most
Holy One is what understanding is. 11 For by me your days will become many,
and to you years of life will be added. 12 If you have become wise, you have
become wise in your own behalf; and if you have ridiculed, you will bear
[it], just you alone.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
And a bit of this .... yeee ... Psalms
BOOK ONE
(Psalms 1 - 41)
1 Happy is the man that has not walked in the counsel of the wicked ones,
And in the way of sinners has not stood,
And in the seat of ridiculers has not sat.
2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah,
And in his law he reads in an undertone day and night.
3 And he will certainly become like a tree planted by streams of water,
That gives its own fruit in its season
And the foliage of which does not wither,
And everything he does will succeed.
4 The wicked are not like that,
But are like the chaff that the wind drives away.
5 That is why the wicked ones will not stand up in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the assembly of righteous ones.
6 For Jehovah is taking knowledge of the way of righteous ones,
But the very way of wicked ones will perish.
2 Why have the nations been in tumult
And the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing?
2 The kings of earth take their stand
And high officials themselves have massed together as one
Against Jehovah and against his anointed one,
3 [Saying:] "Let us tear their bands apart
And cast their cords away from us!"
4 The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh;
Jehovah himself will hold them in derision.
5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger
And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them,
6 [Saying:] "I, even I, have installed my king
Upon Zion, my holy mountain."
7 Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah;
He has said to me: "You are my son;
I, today, I have become your father.
8 Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance
And the ends of the earth as your own possession.
9 You will break them with an iron scepter,
As though a potter's vessel you will dash them to pieces."
10 And now, O kings, exercise insight;
Let yourselves be corrected, O judges of the earth.
11 Serve Jehovah with fear
And be joyful with trembling.
12 Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed
And YOU may not perish [from] the way,
For his anger flares up easily.
Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
A melody of David when he was running away on account of Ab'sa·lom his son.
3 O Jehovah, why have my adversaries become many?
Why are many rising up against me?
2 Many are saying of my soul:
"There is no salvation for him by God." Se'lah.
3 And yet you, O Jehovah, are a shield about me,
My glory and the One lifting up my head.
4 With my voice I shall call to Jehovah himself,
And he will answer me from his holy mountain. Se'lah.
5 As for me, I will lie down that I may sleep;
I shall certainly awake, for Jehovah himself keeps supporting me.
6 I shall not be afraid of ten thousands of people
Who have set themselves in array against me round about.
7 Do arise, O Jehovah! Save me, O my God!
For you will have to strike all my enemies on the jaw.
The teeth of wicked ones you will have to break.
8 Salvation belongs to Jehovah.
Your blessing is upon your people. Se'lah.
To the director on stringed instruments. A melody of David.
4 When I call, answer me, O my righteous God.
In the distress you must make broad space for me.
Show me favor and hear my prayer.
2 YOU sons of men, how long must my glory be for insult,
[While] YOU keep loving empty things,
[While] YOU keep seeking to find a lie? Se'lah.
3 So take knowledge that Jehovah will certainly distinguish his loyal one;
Jehovah himself will hear when I call to him.
4 BE agitated, but do not sin.
Have YOUR say in YOUR heart, upon YOUR bed, and keep silent. Se'lah.
5 Sacrifice the sacrifices of righteousness,
And trust in Jehovah.
6 There are many saying: "Who will show us good?"
Lift up the light of your face upon us, O Jehovah.
7 You will certainly give a rejoicing in my heart
Greater than in the time when their grain and their new wine have abounded.
8 In peace I will both lie down and sleep,
For you yourself alone, O Jehovah, make me dwell in security.
To the director for Ne'hi·loth. A melody of David.
5 To my sayings do give ear, O Jehovah;
Do understand my sighing.
2 Do pay attention to the sound of my cry for help,
O my King and my God, because to you I pray.
3 O Jehovah, in the morning you will hear my voice;
In the morning I shall address myself to you and be on the watch.
4 For you are not a God taking delight in wickedness;
No one bad may reside for any time with you.
5 No boasters may take their stand in front of your eyes.
You do hate all those practicing what is hurtful;
6 You will destroy those speaking a lie.
A man of bloodshed and deception Jehovah detests.
7 As for me, in the abundance of your loving-kindness
I shall come into your house,
I shall bow down toward your holy temple in fear of you.
8 O Jehovah, lead me in your righteousness by reason of my foes;
Make your way smooth before me.
9 For in their mouth there is nothing trustworthy;
Their inward part is adversity indeed.
Their throat is an opened burial place;
A smooth tongue they use.
10 God will certainly hold them guilty;
They will fall due to their own counsels.
In the multitude of their transgressions let there be a dispersing of them,
Because they have rebelled against you.
11 But all those taking refuge in you will rejoice;
To time indefinite they will cry out joyfully.
And you will block approach to them,
And those loving your name will exult in you.
12 For you yourself will bless anyone righteous, O Jehovah;
As with a large shield, with approval you will surround them.
To the director on stringed instruments on the lower octave. A melody of
David.
6 O Jehovah, do not in your anger reprove me,
And do not in your rage correct me.
2 Show me favor, O Jehovah, for I am fading away.
Heal me, O Jehovah, for my bones have been disturbed.
3 Yes, my own soul has been very much disturbed;
And you, O Jehovah-how long?
4 Do return, O Jehovah, do rescue my soul;
Save me for the sake of your loving-kindness.
5 For in death there is no mention of you;
In She'ol who will laud you?
6 I have grown weary with my sighing;
All night long I make my couch swim;
With my tears I make my own divan overflow.
7 From vexation my eye has become weak,
It has grown old because of all those showing hostility to me.
8 Get away from me, all YOU practicers of what is hurtful,
For Jehovah will certainly hear the sound of my weeping.
9 Jehovah will indeed hear my request for favor;
Jehovah himself will accept my own prayer.
10 All my enemies will be very much ashamed and disturbed;
They will turn back, they will be ashamed instantly.
A dirge of David that he sang to Jehovah concerning the words of Cush the
Ben'ja·min·ite.
7 O Jehovah my God, in you I have taken refuge.
Save me from all those persecuting me and deliver me,
2 That no one may tear my soul to pieces as a lion does,
Snatching [me] away when there is no deliverer.
3 O Jehovah my God, if I have done this,
If there exists any injustice in my hands,
4 If I have repaid the one rewarding me with what is bad,
Or [if] I have despoiled anyone showing hostility to me without success,
5 Let an enemy pursue my soul
And let him overtake and trample my life down to the very earth
And cause my own glory to reside in the dust itself. Se'lah.
6 Do arise, O Jehovah, in your anger;
Lift yourself up at the outbursts of fury of those showing hostility to me,
And do awake for me, [since] you have given command for judgment itself.
7 And let the very assembly of national groups surround you,
And against it do you return on high.
8 Jehovah himself will pass sentence on the peoples.
Judge me, O Jehovah, according to my righteousness
And according to my integrity in me.
9 Please, may the badness of wicked ones come to an end,
And may you establish the righteous one;
And God as righteous is testing out heart and kidneys.
10 The shield for me is upon God, a Savior of those upright in heart.
11 God is a righteous Judge,
And God is hurling denunciations every day.
12 If anyone will not return, His sword he will sharpen,
His bow he will certainly bend, and he will make it ready [for shooting].
13 And for himself he must prepare the instruments of death;
His arrows he will make flaming ones.
14 Look! There is one that is pregnant with what is hurtful,
And he has conceived trouble and is bound to give birth to falsehood.
15 A pit he has excavated, and he proceeded to dig it;
But he will fall into the hole [that] he went making.
16 His trouble will return upon his own head,
And upon the crown of his head his own violence will descend.
17 I shall laud Jehovah according to his righteousness,
And I will make melody to the name of Jehovah the Most High.
To the director upon the Git'tith. A melody of David.
8 O Jehovah our Lord, how majestic your name is in all the earth,
You whose dignity is recounted above the heavens!
2 Out of the mouth of children and sucklings you have founded strength,
On account of those showing hostility to you,
So as to make the enemy and the one taking his vengeance desist.
3 When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers,
The moon and the stars that you have prepared,
4 What is mortal man that you keep him in mind,
And the son of earthling man that you take care of him?
5 You also proceeded to make him a little less than godlike ones,
And with glory and splendor you then crowned him.
6 You make him dominate over the works of your hands;
Everything you have put under his feet:
7 Small cattle and oxen, all of them,
And also the beasts of the open field,
8 The birds of heaven and the fish of the sea,
Anything passing through the paths of the seas.
9 O Jehovah our Lord, how majestic your name is in all the earth!
To the director upon Muth-lab'ben. A melody of David.
<H<!>H> [´A'leph]
9 I will laud [you], O Jehovah, with all my heart;
I will declare all your wonderful works.
2 I will rejoice and exult in you,
I will make melody to your name, O Most High.
<H<">H> [Behth]
3 When my enemies turn back,
They will stumble and perish from before you.
4 For you have executed my judgment and my cause;
You have sat on the throne judging with righteousness.
<H<#>H> [Gi'mel]
5 You have rebuked nations, you have destroyed the wicked one.
Their name you have wiped out to time indefinite, even forever.
6 O you enemy, [your] desolations have come to their perpetual finish,
And the cities that you have uprooted.
The very mention of them will certainly perish.
<H<%>H> [He´]
7 As for Jehovah, he will sit to time indefinite,
Firmly establishing his throne for judgment itself.
8 And he himself will judge the productive land in righteousness;
He will judicially try national groups in uprightness.
<H<&>H> [Waw]
9 And Jehovah will become a secure height for anyone crushed,
A secure height in times of distress.
10 And those knowing your name will trust in you,
For you will certainly not leave those looking for you, O Jehovah.
<H<'>H> [Za'yin]
11 Make melody, YOU people, to Jehovah, who is dwelling in Zion;
Tell among the peoples his deeds.
12 For, when looking for bloodshed, he will certainly remember those very
ones;
He is sure not to forget the outcry of the afflicted ones.
<H<(>H> [Chehth]
13 Show me favor, O Jehovah; see my affliction by those hating me,
O you who are lifting me up from the gates of death,
14 In order that I may declare all your praiseworthy deeds
In the gates of the daughter of Zion,
That I may be joyful in your salvation.
<H< )>H> [Tehth]
15 The nations have sunk down into the pit that they have made;
In the net that they hid, their own foot has been caught.
16 Jehovah is known by the judgment that he has executed.
By the activity of his own hands the wicked one has been ensnared.
Hig·ga'ion. Se'lah.
<H<*>H> [Yohdh]
17 Wicked people will turn back to She'ol,
Even all the nations forgetting God.
18 For not always will the poor one be forgotten,
Nor will the hope of the meek ones ever perish.
<H<+>H> [Kaph]
19 Do arise, O Jehovah! Let not mortal man prove superior in strength.
Let the nations be judged before your face.
20 Do put fear into them, O Jehovah,
That the nations may know that they are but mortal men. Se'lah.
<H<->H> [La'medh]
10 Why, O Jehovah, do you keep standing afar off?
[Why] do you keep yourself hid in times of distress?
2 In his haughtiness the wicked one hotly pursues the afflicted one;
They get caught by the ideas that they have thought up.
3 For the wicked has praised himself over the selfish longing of his soul,
And the one making undue profit has blessed himself;
<H<0>H> [Nun]
He has disrespected Jehovah.
4 The wicked one according to his superciliousness makes no search;
All his ideas are: "There is no God."
5 His ways keep prospering all the time.
Your judicial decisions are high up out of his range;
As for all those showing hostility to him, he puffs at them.
6 He has said in his heart: "I shall not be made to totter;
For generation after generation [I shall be] one who is in no calamity."
<H<4>H> [Pe´]
7 His mouth is full of oaths and of deceptions and of oppression.
Under his tongue are trouble and what is hurtful.
8 He sits in an ambush of settlements;
From concealed places he will kill someone innocent.
<H<3>H> ['A'yin]
His eyes are on the lookout for someone unfortunate.
9 He keeps lying in wait in the concealed place like a lion in his covert.
He keeps lying in wait to carry off some afflicted one by force.
He carries off the afflicted one by force when he draws his net shut.
10 He is crushed, he bows down,
And the army of dejected ones has to fall into his strong [claws].
11 He has said in his heart: "God has forgotten.
He has concealed his face.
He will certainly never see [it]."
<H<8>H> [Qohph]
12 Do arise, O Jehovah. O God, lift up your hand.
Do not forget the afflicted ones.
13 Why is it that the wicked one has disrespected God?
He has said in his heart: "You will not require an accounting."
<H<9>H> [Rehsh]
14 For you yourself have seen trouble and vexation.
You keep looking on, to get [them] into your hand.
To you the unfortunate one, the fatherless boy, commits [himself].
You yourself have become [his] helper.
<H<:>H> [Shin]
15 Break the arm of the wicked and bad one.
May you search after his wickedness [until] you find no more.
16 Jehovah is King to time indefinite, even forever.
The nations have perished out of his earth.
<H<<>H> [Taw]
17 The desire of the meek ones you will certainly hear, O Jehovah.
You will prepare their heart.
You will pay attention with your ear,
18 To judge the fatherless boy and the crushed one,
That mortal man who is of the earth may no more cause trembling.
To the director. Of David.
11 In Jehovah I have taken refuge.
How dare YOU men say to my soul:
"Flee as a bird to YOUR mountain!"
2 For, look! the wicked ones themselves bend the bow,
They do make ready their arrow upon the bowstring,
To shoot in the gloom at the ones upright in heart.
3 When the foundations themselves are torn down,
What must anyone righteous do?
4 Jehovah is in his holy temple.
Jehovah-in the heavens is his throne.
His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men.
5 Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
And anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.
6 He will rain down upon the wicked ones traps, fire and sulphur
And a scorching wind, as the portion of their cup.
7 For Jehovah is righteous; he does love righteous acts.
The upright are the ones that will behold his face.
To the director on the lower octave. A melody of David.
12 Do save [me], O Jehovah, for the loyal one has come to an end;
For faithful people have vanished from the sons of men.
2 Untruth they keep speaking one to the other;
With a smooth lip they keep speaking even with a double heart.
3 Jehovah will cut off all smooth lips,
The tongue speaking great things,
4 Those who have said: "With our tongue we shall prevail.
Our lips are with us. Who will be a master to us?"
5 "Because of the despoiling of the afflicted ones, because of the sighing
of the poor ones,
I shall at this time arise," says Jehovah.
"I shall put [him] in safety from anyone that puffs at him."
6 The sayings of Jehovah are pure sayings,
As silver refined in a smelting furnace of earth, clarified seven times.
7 You yourself, O Jehovah, will guard them;
You will preserve each one from this generation to time indefinite.
8 The wicked ones walk all around,
Because vileness is exalted among the sons of men.
To the director. A melody of David.
13 How long, O Jehovah, will you forget me? Forever?
How long will you conceal your face from me?
2 How long shall I set resistance in my soul,
Grief in my heart by day?
How long will my enemy be exalted over me?
3 Do look [upon me]; answer me, O Jehovah my God.
Do make my eyes shine, that I may not fall asleep in death,
4 That my enemy may not say: "I have won out over him!"
[That] my adversaries themselves may [not] be joyful because I am made to
stagger.
5 As for me, in your loving-kindness I have trusted;
Let my heart be joyful in your salvation.
6 I will sing to Jehovah, for he has dealt rewardingly with me.
To the director. Of David.
14 The senseless one has said in his heart:
"There is no Jehovah."
They have acted ruinously, they have acted detestably in [their] dealing.
There is no one doing good.
2 As for Jehovah, he has looked down from heaven itself upon the sons of
men,
To see whether there exists anyone having insight, anyone seeking Jehovah.
3 They have all turned aside, they are [all] alike corrupt;
There is no one doing good,
Not even one.
4 Have none of the practicers of what is hurtful got knowledge,
Eating up my people as they have eaten bread?
They have not called even upon Jehovah.
5 There they were filled with a great dread,
For Jehovah is among the generation of the righteous one.
6 The counsel of the afflicted one YOU people would put to shame,
Because Jehovah is his refuge.
7 O that out of Zion there were the salvation of Israel!
When Jehovah gathers back the captive ones of his people,
Let Jacob be joyful, let Israel rejoice.
A melody of David.
15 O Jehovah, who will be a guest in your tent?
Who will reside in your holy mountain?
2 He who is walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness
And speaking the truth in his heart.
3 He has not slandered with his tongue.
To his companion he has done nothing bad,
And no reproach has he taken up against his intimate acquaintance.
4 In his eyes anyone contemptible is certainly rejected,
But those fearing Jehovah he honors.
He has sworn to what is bad [for himself], and yet he does not alter.
5 His money he has not given out on interest,
And a bribe against the innocent one he has not taken.
He that is doing these things will never be made to totter.
A mik'tam of David.
16 Keep me, O God, for I have taken refuge in you.
2 I have said to Jehovah: "You are Jehovah; my goodness is, not for your
sake,
3 [But] to the holy ones that are in the earth.
They, even the majestic ones, are the ones in whom is all my delight."
4 Pains become many to those [who], when there is someone else, do hurry
[after him].
I shall not pour out their drink offerings of blood,
And I shall not carry their names upon my lips.
5 Jehovah is the portion of my allotted share and of my cup.
You are holding fast my lot.
6 The measuring lines themselves have fallen for me in pleasant places.
Really, [my own] possession has proved agreeable to me.
7 I shall bless Jehovah, who has given me advice.
Really, during the nights my kidneys have corrected me.
8 I have placed Jehovah in front of me constantly.
Because [he] is at my right hand, I shall not be made to totter.
9 Therefore my heart does rejoice, and my glory is inclined to be joyful.
Also, my own flesh will reside in security.
10 For you will not leave my soul in She'ol.
You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.
11 You will cause me to know the path of life.
Rejoicing to satisfaction is with your face;
There is pleasantness at your right hand forever.
A prayer of David.
17 Do hear what is righteous, O Jehovah; do pay attention to my entreating
cry;
Do give ear to my prayer without lips of deception.
2 From before you may my judgment go forth;
May your own eyes behold uprightness.
3 You have examined my heart, you have made inspection by night,
You have refined me; you will discover [that] I have not schemed.
My mouth will not transgress.
4 As for the activities of men,
By the word of your lips I myself have watched against the paths of the
robber.
5 Let my steps take hold on your tracks,
[In which] my footsteps will certainly not be made to totter.
6 I myself do call upon you, because you will answer me, O God.
Incline your ear to me. Hear my saying.
7 Make your acts of loving-kindnesses wonderful, O Savior of those seeking
refuge
From the revolters against your right hand.
8 Keep me as the pupil of the eyeball,
In the shadow of your wings may you conceal me,
9 Because of the wicked who have despoiled me.
The enemies against my soul themselves keep closing in upon me.
10 They have enclosed [themselves] with their own fat;
With their mouth they have spoken in haughtiness;
11 As regards our steps, now they have surrounded us;
They fix their eyes to incline to the earth.
12 His likeness is that of a lion that yearns to tear to pieces
And that of a young lion sitting in concealed places.
13 Do rise up, O Jehovah; do confront him to the face;
Make him bow down; do provide escape for my soul from the wicked one with
your sword,
14 From men, [by] your hand, O Jehovah,
From men of [this] system of things, whose share is in [this] life,
And whose belly you fill with your concealed treasure,
Who are satisfied with sons
And who do lay up for their children what they leave over.
15 As for me, in righteousness I shall behold your face;
I will be satisfied when awakening [to see] your form.
To the director. Of Jehovah's servant, of David, who spoke to Jehovah the
words of this song in the day that Jehovah had delivered him out of the palm
of all his enemies and out of the hand of Saul. And he proceeded to say:
18 I shall have affection for you, O Jehovah my strength.
2 Jehovah is my crag and my stronghold and the Provider of escape for me.
My God is my rock. I shall take refuge in him,
My shield and my horn of salvation, my secure height.
3 On the One to be praised, Jehovah, I shall call,
And from my enemies I shall be saved.
4 The ropes of death encircled me;
Flash floods of good-for-nothing [men] also kept terrifying me.
5 The very ropes of She'ol surrounded me;
The snares of death confronted me.
6 In my distress I kept calling upon Jehovah,
And to my God I kept crying for help.
Out of his temple he proceeded to hear my voice,
And my own cry before him for help now came into his ears.
7 And the earth began to shake and rock,
And the foundations of the mountains themselves became agitated,
And they kept shaking back and forth because he had been angered.
8 Smoke went up at his nostrils, and fire itself from his mouth kept
devouring;
Coals themselves blazed forth from him.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:12 AM
And more ... and more ... wooooowhooooooo

13 A woman of stupidity is boisterous. She is simplemindedness itself and
has come to know nothing whatever. 14 And she has seated herself at the
entrance of her house, upon a seat, [in] the high places of the town, 15 to
call out to those passing along the way, those who are going straight ahead
on their paths: 16 "Whoever is inexperienced, let him turn aside here." And
whoever is in want of heart-she has also said to him: 17 "Stolen waters
themselves are sweet, and bread [eaten] in secrecy-it is pleasant." 18 But
he has not come to know that those impotent in death are there, that those
called in by her are in the low places of She'ol.
10 Proverbs of Sol'o·mon.
A wise son is the one that makes a father rejoice, and a stupid son is the
grief of his mother. 2 The treasures of the wicked one will be of no
benefit, but righteousness is what will deliver from death. 3 Jehovah will
not cause the soul of the righteous one to go hungry, but the craving of the
wicked ones he will push away.
4 The one working with a slack hand will be of little means, but the hand of
the diligent one is what will make one rich.
5 The son acting with insight is gathering during the summertime; the son
acting shamefully is fast asleep during the harvest.
6 Blessings are for the head of the righteous one, but as regards the mouth
of the wicked ones, it covers up violence. 7 The remembrance of the
righteous one is due for a blessing, but the very name of the wicked ones
will rot.
8 The one wise in heart will accept commandments, but the one foolish with
his lips will be trodden down.
9 He that is walking in integrity will walk in security, but he that is
making his ways crooked will make himself known.
10 The one winking his eye will give pain, and the one foolish with his lips
will be trodden down. 11 The mouth of the righteous one is a source of life;
but as regards the mouth of the wicked ones, it covers up violence.
12 Hatred is what stirs up contentions, but love covers over even all
transgressions.
13 On the lips of the understanding person wisdom is found, but the rod is
for the back of one in want of heart.
14 The wise are the ones that treasure up knowledge, but the mouth of the
foolish one is near to ruin itself.
15 The valuable things of a rich man are his strong town. The ruin of the
lowly ones is their poverty.
16 The activity of the righteous one results in life; the produce of the
wicked one results in sin.
17 He that is holding to discipline is a path to life, but he that is
leaving reproof is causing to wander.
18 Where there is one covering over hatred there are lips of falsehood, and
the one bringing forth a bad report is stupid.
19 In the abundance of words there does not fail to be transgression, but
the one keeping his lips in check is acting discreetly.
20 The tongue of the righteous one is choice silver; the heart of the wicked
one is worth little.
21 The very lips of the righteous one keep pasturing many, but for want of
heart the foolish themselves keep dying.
22 The blessing of Jehovah-that is what makes rich, and he adds no pain with
it.
23 To the stupid one the carrying on of loose conduct is like sport, but
wisdom is for the man of discernment.
24 The thing frightful to the wicked one-that is what will come to him; but
the desire of the righteous ones will be granted. 25 As when the storm wind
passes over, so the wicked one is no more; but the righteous one is a
foundation to time indefinite.
26 As vinegar to the teeth and as smoke to the eyes, so the lazy man is to
those sending him forth.
27 The very fear of Jehovah will add days, but the years themselves of the
wicked ones will be cut short.
28 The expectation of the righteous ones is a rejoicing, but the very hope
of the wicked ones will perish.
29 The way of Jehovah is a stronghold for the blameless one, but ruin is for
the practicers of what is hurtful.
30 As for the righteous one, to time indefinite he will not be caused to
stagger; but as for the wicked ones, they will not keep residing on the
earth.
31 The mouth of the righteous one-it bears the fruit of wisdom, but the
tongue of perverseness will be cut off.
32 The lips of the righteous one-they come to know goodwill, but the mouth
of the wicked ones is perverseness.
11 A cheating pair of scales is something detestable to Jehovah, but a
complete stone-weight is a pleasure to him.
2 Has presumptuousness come? Then dishonor will come; but wisdom is with the
modest ones.
3 The integrity of the upright ones is what leads them, but distortion by
those dealing treacherously will despoil them.
4 Valuable things will be of no benefit on the day of fury, but
righteousness itself will deliver from death.
5 The righteousness of the blameless one is what will make his way straight,
but in his own wickedness the wicked one will fall. 6 The righteousness of
the upright ones is what will deliver them, but by their craving those
dealing treacherously will themselves be caught.
7 When a wicked man dies, [his] hope perishes; and even expectation [based]
on powerfulness has perished.
8 The righteous is the one rescued even from distress, and the wicked one
comes in instead of him.
9 By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin,
but by knowledge are the righteous rescued.
10 Because of the goodness of the righteous ones a town is elated, but when
the wicked ones perish there is a joyful cry.
11 Because of the blessing of the upright ones a town is exalted, but
because of the mouth of the wicked ones it gets torn down.
12 The one in want of heart has despised his own fellowman, but the man of
broad discernment is one that keeps silent.
13 The one walking about as a slanderer is uncovering confidential talk, but
the one faithful in spirit is covering over a matter.
14 When there is no skillful direction, the people fall; but there is
salvation in the multitude of counselors.
15 One will positively fare badly because he has gone surety for a stranger,
but the one hating handshaking is keeping carefree.
16 A woman of charm is the one that takes hold of glory; but the tyrants,
for their part, take hold of riches.
17 A man of loving-kindness is dealing rewardingly with his own soul, but
the cruel person is bringing ostracism upon his own organism.
18 The wicked one is making false wages, but the one sowing righteousness,
true earnings.
19 The one firmly standing for righteousness is in line for life, but the
one chasing after what is bad is in line for his own death.
20 Those crooked at heart are something detestable to Jehovah, but the ones
blameless in [their] way are a pleasure to him.
21 Though hand be to hand, a bad person will not go unpunished; but the
offspring of the righteous ones will certainly escape.
22 As a gold nose ring in the snout of a pig, so is a woman that is pretty
but that is turning away from sensibleness.
23 The desire of the righteous ones is surely good; the hope of the wicked
ones is fury.
24 There exists the one that is scattering and yet is being increased; also
the one that is keeping back from what is right, but it results only in
want.
25 The generous soul will itself be made fat, and the one freely watering
[others] will himself also be freely watered.
26 The one holding back grain-the populace will execrate him, but there is a
blessing for the head of the one letting it be bought.
27 He that is looking for good will keep seeking goodwill; but as for the
one searching for bad, it will come upon him.
28 The one trusting in his riches-he himself will fall; but just like
foliage the righteous ones will flourish.
29 As for anyone bringing ostracism upon his own house, he will take
possession of wind; and a foolish person will be a servant to the one wise
in heart.
30 The fruitage of the righteous one is a tree of life, and he that is
winning souls is wise.
31 Look! The righteous one-in the earth he will be rewarded. How much more
should the wicked one and the sinner be!
12 A lover of discipline is a lover of knowledge, but a hater of reproof is
unreasoning.
2 One that is good gets approval from Jehovah, but the man of [wicked] ideas
he pronounces wicked.
3 No man will be firmly established by wickedness; but as for the
root-foundation of the righteous ones, it will not be caused to stagger.
4 A capable wife is a crown to her owner, but as rottenness in his bones is
she that acts shamefully.
5 The thoughts of the righteous ones are judgment; the steering by the
wicked ones is deception.
6 The words of the wicked ones are a lying in wait for blood, but the mouth
of the upright ones is what will deliver them.
7 There is an overthrowing of the wicked ones and they are no more, but the
very house of the righteous ones will keep standing.
8 For his mouth of discretion a man will be praised, but one who is twisted
at heart will come to be for contempt.
9 Better is the one lightly esteemed but having a servant than the one
glorifying himself but in want of bread.
10 The righteous one is caring for the soul of his domestic animal, but the
mercies of the wicked ones are cruel.
11 The one cultivating his ground will himself be satisfied with bread, but
the one pursuing valueless things is in want of heart.
12 The wicked one has desired the netted prey of bad men; but as for the
root of the righteous ones, it yields.
13 By the transgression of the lips the bad person is ensnared, but the
righteous one gets out of distress.
14 From the fruitage of a man's mouth he is satisfied with good, and the
very doing of a man's hands will come back to him.
15 The way of the foolish one is right in his own eyes, but the one
listening to counsel is wise.
16 It is a foolish person that makes known his vexation in the [same] day,
but the shrewd one is covering over a dishonor.
17 He that launches forth faithfulness will tell what is righteous, but a
false witness, deception.
18 There exists the one speaking thoughtlessly as with the stabs of a sword,
but the tongue of the wise ones is a healing.
19 It is the lip of truth that will be firmly established forever, but the
tongue of falsehood will be only as long as a moment.
20 Deception is in the heart of those fabricating mischief, but those
counseling peace have rejoicing.
21 Nothing hurtful will befall the righteous one, but the wicked are the
ones that will certainly be filled with calamity.
22 False lips are something detestable to Jehovah, but those acting in
faithfulness are a pleasure to him.
23 A shrewd man is covering knowledge, but the heart of the stupid ones is
one that calls out foolishness.
24 The hand of the diligent ones is the one that will rule, but the slack
hand will come to be for forced labor.
25 Anxious care in the heart of a man is what will cause it to bow down, but
the good word is what makes it rejoice.
26 The righteous one spies out his own pasturage, but the very way of wicked
ones causes them to wander about.
27 Slackness will not start up one's game animals, but the diligent one is a
man's precious wealth.
28 In the path of righteousness there is life, and the journey in its
pathway means no death.
13 A son is wise where there is a father's discipline, but the ridiculer is
one that has not heard rebuke.
2 From the fruitage of his mouth a man will eat good, but the very soul of
those dealing treacherously is violence.
3 The one guarding his mouth is keeping his soul. The one opening wide his
lips-he will have ruin.
4 The lazy one is showing himself desirous, but his soul [has] nothing.
However, the very soul of the diligent ones will be made fat.
5 A false word is what the righteous hates, but the wicked ones act
shamefully and cause disgrace for themselves.
6 Righteousness itself safeguards the one who is harmless in his way, but
wickedness is what subverts the sinner.
7 There exists the one that is pretending to be rich and yet he has nothing
at all; there is the one that is pretending to be of little means and yet
[he has] many valuable things.
8 The ransom for a man's soul is his riches, but the one of little means has
not heard rebuke.
9 The very light of the righteous ones will rejoice; but the lamp of the
wicked ones-it will be extinguished.
10 By presumptuousness one only causes a struggle, but with those consulting
together there is wisdom.
11 Valuable things resulting from vanity become fewer, but the one
collecting by the hand is the one that makes increase.
12 Expectation postponed is making the heart sick, but the thing desired is
a tree of life when it does come.
13 He that has despised the word, from him a [debtor's] pledge will be
seized; but the one fearing the commandment is the one that will be
rewarded.
14 The law of the wise one is a source of life, to turn one away from the
snares of death.
15 Good insight itself gives favor, but the way of those dealing
treacherously is rugged.
16 Everyone shrewd will act with knowledge, but the one that is stupid will
spread abroad foolishness.
17 A messenger that is wicked will fall into bad, but a faithful envoy is a
healing.
18 The one neglecting discipline [comes to] poverty and dishonor, but the
one keeping a reproof is the one that is glorified.
19 Desire when realized is pleasurable to the soul; but it is something
detestable to the stupid ones to turn away from bad.
20 He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is
having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.
21 Sinners are the ones whom calamity pursues, but the righteous are the
ones whom good rewards.
22 One who is good will leave an inheritance to sons of sons, and the wealth
of the sinner is something treasured up for the righteous one.
23 Plowed ground of persons of little means [yields] a great deal of food,
but there exists the one that is swept away for lack of judgment.
24 The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is
he that does look for him with discipline.
25 The righteous is eating to the satisfaction of his soul, but the belly of
the wicked ones will be empty.
14 The truly wise woman has built up her house, but the foolish one tears it
down with her own hands.
2 The one walking in his uprightness is fearing Jehovah, but the one crooked
in his ways is despising Him.
3 The rod of haughtiness is in the mouth of the foolish one, but the very
lips of the wise ones will guard them.
4 Where there are no cattle the manger is clean, but the crop is abundant
because of the power of a bull.
5 A faithful witness is one that will not lie, but a false witness launches
forth mere lies.
6 The ridiculer has sought to find wisdom, and there is none; but to the
understanding one knowledge is an easy thing.
7 Go away from in front of the stupid man, for you will certainly not take
note of the lips of knowledge.
8 The wisdom of the shrewd is to understand his way, but the foolishness of
stupid ones is deception.
9 Foolish are those who make a derision of guilt, but among the upright ones
there is agreement.
10 The heart is aware of the bitterness of one's soul, and with its
rejoicing no stranger will intermeddle.
11 The house of wicked people will be annihilated, but the tent of the
upright ones will flourish.
12 There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death
are the end of it afterward.
13 Even in laughter the heart may be in pain; and grief is what rejoicing
ends up in.
14 The one faithless at heart will be satisfied with the results of his own
ways, but the good man with the results of his dealings.
15 Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one
considers his steps.
16 The wise one fears and is turning away from badness, but the stupid is
becoming furious and self-confident.
17 He that is quick to anger will commit foolishness, but the man of
thinking abilities is hated.
18 The inexperienced ones will certainly take possession of foolishness, but
the shrewd ones will bear knowledge as a headdress.
19 Bad people will have to bow down before the good ones, and the wicked
people at the gates of the righteous one.
20 Even to his fellowman one who is of little means is an object of hatred,
but many are the friends of the rich person.
21 The one despising his own fellowman is sinning, but happy is he who is
showing favor to the afflicted ones.
22 Will not those devising mischief go wandering about? But there are
loving-kindness and trueness as regards those devising good.
23 By every kind of toil there comes to be an advantage, but merely the word
of the lips [tends] to want.
24 The crown of the wise is their riches; the foolishness of the stupid ones
is foolishness.
25 A true witness is delivering souls, but a deceitful one launches forth
mere lies.
26 In the fear of Jehovah there is strong confidence, and for his sons there
will come to be a refuge.
27 The fear of Jehovah is a well of life, to turn away from the snares of
death.
28 In the multitude of people there is an adornment of a king, but in the
lack of population is the ruin of a high official.
29 He that is slow to anger is abundant in discernment, but one that is
impatient is exalting foolishness.
30 A calm heart is the life of the fleshly organism, but jealousy is
rottenness to the bones.
31 He that is defrauding the lowly one has reproached his Maker, but the one
showing favor to the poor one is glorifying Him.
32 Because of his badness the wicked will be pushed down, but the righteous
will be finding refuge in his integrity.
33 In the heart of the understanding one there rests wisdom, and in the
midst of stupid ones it becomes known.
34 Righteousness is what exalts a nation, but sin is something disgraceful
to national groups.
35 The pleasure of a king is in the servant who is acting with insight, but
his fury comes to be toward one acting shamefully.
15 An answer, when mild, turns away rage, but a word causing pain makes
anger to come up.
2 The tongue of wise ones does good with knowledge, but the mouth of the
stupid ones bubbles forth with foolishness.
3 The eyes of Jehovah are in every place, keeping watch upon the bad ones
and the good ones.
4 The calmness of the tongue is a tree of life, but distortion in it means a
breaking down in the spirit.
5 Anyone foolish disrespects the discipline of his father, but anyone
regarding reproof is shrewd.
6 In the house of the righteous one there is an abundant store, but in the
produce of the wicked one there is a becoming ostracized.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
And how about this learn a few things from ... Proverbs
1 The proverbs of Sol'o·mon the son of David, the king of Israel, 2 for one
to know wisdom and discipline, to discern the sayings of understanding, 3 to
receive the discipline that gives insight, righteousness and judgment and
uprightness, 4 to give to the inexperienced ones shrewdness, to a young man
knowledge and thinking ability.
5 A wise person will listen and take in more instruction, and a man of
understanding is the one who acquires skillful direction, 6 to understand a
proverb and a puzzling saying, the words of wise persons and their riddles.
7 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge. Wisdom and discipline
are what mere fools have despised.
8 Listen, my son, to the discipline of your father, and do not forsake the
law of your mother. 9 For they are a wreath of attractiveness to your head
and a fine necklace to your throat.
10 My son, if sinners try to seduce you, do not consent. 11 If they keep
saying: "Do go with us. Do let us lie in ambush for blood. Do let us lie in
concealment for the innocent men without any cause. 12 Let us swallow them
down alive just like She'ol, even whole, like those going down into a pit.
13 Let us find all sorts of precious valuables. Let us fill our houses with
spoil. 14 Your lot you ought to cast in among us. Let there come to be just
one bag belonging to all of us"- 15 my son, do not go in the way with them.
Hold back your foot from their roadway. 16 For their feet are those that run
to sheer badness, and they keep hastening to shed blood. 17 For it is for
nothing that the net is spread before the eyes of anything owning wings. 18
Consequently they themselves lie in ambush for the very blood of these; they
lie in concealment for their souls. 19 Thus are the paths of everyone making
unjust profit. It takes away the very soul of its owners.
20 True wisdom itself keeps crying aloud in the very street. In the public
squares it keeps giving forth its voice. 21 At the upper end of the noisy
streets it calls out. At the entrances of the gates into the city it says
its own sayings:
22 "How long will YOU inexperienced ones keep loving inexperience, and [how
long] must YOU ridiculers desire for yourselves outright ridicule, and [how
long] will YOU stupid ones keep hating knowledge? 23 Turn back at my
reproof. Then to YOU I will cause my spirit to bubble forth; I will make my
words known to YOU. 24 Because I have called out but YOU keep refusing, I
have stretched out my hand but there is no one paying attention, 25 and YOU
keep neglecting all my counsel, and my reproof YOU have not accepted, 26 I
also, for my part, shall laugh at YOUR own disaster, I shall mock when what
YOU dread comes, 27 when what YOU dread comes just like a storm, and YOUR
own disaster gets here just like a storm wind, when distress and hard times
come upon YOU. 28 At that time they will keep calling me, but I shall not
answer; they will keep looking for me, but they will not find me, 29 for the
reason that they hated knowledge, and the fear of Jehovah they did not
choose. 30 They did not consent to my counsel; they disrespected all my
reproof. 31 So they will eat from the fruitage of their way, and they will
be glutted with their own counsels. 32 For the renegading of the
inexperienced ones is what will kill them, and the easygoingness of the
stupid is what will destroy them. 33 As for the one listening to me, he will
reside in security and be undisturbed from dread of calamity."
2 My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments
with yourself, 2 so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you
may incline your heart to discernment; 3 if, moreover, you call out for
understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, 4
if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep
searching for it, 5 in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah,
and you will find the very knowledge of God. 6 For Jehovah himself gives
wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment. 7 And for the
upright ones he will treasure up practical wisdom; for those walking in
integrity he is a shield, 8 by observing the paths of judgment, and he will
guard the very way of his loyal ones. 9 In that case you will understand
righteousness and judgment and uprightness, the entire course of what is
good.
10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant
to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you,
discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way,
from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of
uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing
in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness; 15 those
whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their general course; 16 to
deliver you from the strange woman, from the foreign woman who has made her
own sayings smooth, 17 who is leaving the confidential friend of her youth
and who has forgotten the very covenant of her God. 18 For down to death her
house does sink and down to those impotent in death her tracks. 19 None of
those having relations with her will come back, nor will they regain the
paths of those living.
20 The purpose is that you may walk in the way of good people and that the
paths of the righteous ones you may keep. 21 For the upright are the ones
that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be
left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the
very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.
3 My son, my law do not forget, and my commandments may your heart observe,
2 because length of days and years of life and peace will be added to you. 3
May loving-kindness and trueness themselves not leave you. Tie them about
your throat. Write them upon the tablet of your heart, 4 and so find favor
and good insight in the eyes of God and of earthling man. 5 Trust in Jehovah
with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. 6 In all
your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight.
7 Do not become wise in your own eyes. Fear Jehovah and turn away from bad.
8 May it become a healing to your navel and a refreshment to your bones.
9 Honor Jehovah with your valuable things and with the firstfruits of all
your produce. 10 Then your stores of supply will be filled with plenty; and
with new wine your own press vats will overflow.
11 The discipline of Jehovah, O my son, do not reject; and do not abhor his
reproof, 12 because the one whom Jehovah loves he reproves, even as a father
does a son in whom he finds pleasure.
13 Happy is the man that has found wisdom, and the man that gets
discernment, 14 for having it as gain is better than having silver as gain
and having it as produce than gold itself. 15 It is more precious than
corals, and all other delights of yours cannot be made equal to it. 16
Length of days is in its right hand; in its left hand there are riches and
glory. 17 Its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all its roadways are peace.
18 It is a tree of life to those taking hold of it, and those keeping fast
hold of it are to be called happy.
19 Jehovah himself in wisdom founded the earth. He solidly fixed the heavens
in discernment. 20 By his knowledge the watery deeps themselves were split
apart, and the cloudy skies keep dripping down light rain. 21 My son, may
they not get away from your eyes. Safeguard practical wisdom and thinking
ability, 22 and they will prove to be life to your soul and charm to your
throat. 23 In that case you will walk in security on your way, and even your
foot will not strike against anything. 24 Whenever you lie down you will
feel no dread; and you will certainly lie down, and your sleep must be
pleasurable. 25 You will not need to be afraid of any sudden dreadful thing,
nor of the storm upon the wicked ones, because it is coming. 26 For Jehovah
himself will prove to be, in effect, your confidence, and he will certainly
keep your foot against capture.
27 Do not hold back good from those to whom it is owing, when it happens to
be in the power of your hand to do [it]. 28 Do not say to your fellowman:
"Go, and come back and tomorrow I shall give," when there is something with
you. 29 Do not fabricate against your fellowman anything bad, when he is
dwelling in a sense of security with you. 30 Do not quarrel with a man
without cause, if he has rendered no bad to you.
31 Do not become envious of the man of violence, nor choose any of his ways.
32 For the devious person is a detestable thing to Jehovah, but His intimacy
is with the upright ones. 33 The curse of Jehovah is on the house of the
wicked one, but the abiding place of the righteous ones he blesses. 34 If it
has to do with ridiculers, he himself will deride; but to the meek ones he
will show favor. 35 Honor is what the wise ones will come to possess, but
the stupid ones are exalting dishonor.
4 Listen, O sons, to the discipline of a father and pay attention, so as to
know understanding. 2 For good instruction is what I certainly shall give to
YOU. My law DO not leave. 3 For I proved to be a real son to my father,
tender and the only one before my mother. 4 And he would instruct me and say
to me: "May your heart keep fast hold of my words. Keep my commandments and
continue living. 5 Acquire wisdom, acquire understanding. Do not forget, and
do not turn aside from the sayings of my mouth. 6 Do not leave it, and it
will keep you. Love it, and it will safeguard you. 7 Wisdom is the prime
thing. Acquire wisdom; and with all that you acquire, acquire understanding.
8 Highly esteem it, and it will exalt you. It will glorify you because you
embrace it. 9 To your head it will give a wreath of charm; a crown of beauty
it will bestow upon you."
10 Hear, my son, and accept my sayings. Then for you the years of life will
become many. 11 I will instruct you even in the way of wisdom; I will cause
you to tread in the tracks of uprightness. 12 When you walk, your pace will
not be cramped; and if you run, you will not stumble. 13 Take hold on
discipline; do not let go. Safeguard it, for it itself is your life.
14 Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight
on into the way of the bad ones. 15 Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn
aside from it, and pass along. 16 For they do not sleep unless they do
badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to
stumble. 17 For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and
the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. 18 But the path of the
righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter
until the day is firmly established. 19 The way of the wicked ones is like
the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling.
20 My son, to my words do pay attention. To my sayings incline your ear. 21
May they not get away from your eyes. Keep them in the midst of your heart.
22 For they are life to those finding them and health to all their flesh. 23
More than all else that is to be guarded, safeguard your heart, for out of
it are the sources of life. 24 Remove from yourself the crookedness of
speech; and the deviousness of lips put far away from yourself. 25 As for
your eyes, straight ahead they should look, yes, your own beaming eyes
should gaze straight in front of you. 26 Smooth out the course of your foot,
and may all your own ways be firmly established. 27 Do not incline to the
right hand or to the left. Remove your foot from what is bad.
5 My son, to my wisdom O do pay attention. To my discernment incline your
ears, 2 so as to guard thinking abilities; and may your own lips safeguard
knowledge itself.
3 For as a honeycomb the lips of a strange woman keep dripping, and her
palate is smoother than oil. 4 But the aftereffect from her is as bitter as
wormwood; it is as sharp as a two-edged sword. 5 Her feet are descending to
death. Her very steps take hold on She'ol itself. 6 The path of life she
does not contemplate. Her tracks have wandered she does not know [where]. 7
So now, O sons, listen to me and do not turn away from the sayings of my
mouth. 8 Keep your way far off from alongside her, and do not get near to
the entrance of her house, 9 that you may not give to others your dignity,
nor your years to what is cruel; 10 that strangers may not satisfy
themselves with your power, nor the things you got by pain be in the house
of a foreigner, 11 nor you have to groan in your future when your flesh and
your organism come to an end. 12 And you will have to say: "How I have hated
discipline and my heart has disrespected even reproof! 13 And I have not
listened to the voice of my instructors, and to my teachers I have not
inclined my ear. 14 Easily I have come to be in every sort of badness in the
midst of the congregation and of the assembly."
15 Drink water out of your own cistern, and tricklings out of the midst of
your own well. 16 Should your springs be scattered out of doors, [your]
streams of water in the public squares themselves? 17 Let them prove to be
for you alone, and not for strangers with you. 18 Let your water source
prove to be blessed, and rejoice with the wife of your youth, 19 a lovable
hind and a charming mountain goat. Let her own breasts intoxicate you at all
times. With her love may you be in an ecstasy constantly. 20 So why should
you, my son, be in an ecstasy with a strange woman or embrace the bosom of a
foreign woman? 21 For the ways of man are in front of the eyes of Jehovah,
and he is contemplating all his tracks. 22 His own errors will catch the
wicked one, and in the ropes of his own sin he will be taken hold of. 23 He
will be the one to die because there is no discipline, and [because] in the
abundance of his foolishness he goes astray.
6 My son, if you have gone surety for your fellowman, [if] you have given
your handshake even to the stranger, 2 [if] you have been ensnared by the
sayings of your mouth, [if] you have been caught by the sayings of your
mouth, 3 take this action then, my son, and deliver yourself, for you have
come into the palm of your fellowman: Go humble yourself and storm your
fellowman with importunities. 4 Do not give any sleep to your eyes, nor any
slumber to your beaming eyes. 5 Deliver yourself like a gazelle from the
hand and like a bird from the hand of the birdcatcher.
6 Go to the ant, you lazy one; see its ways and become wise. 7 Although it
has no commander, officer or ruler, 8 it prepares its food even in the
summer; it has gathered its food supplies even in the harvest. 9 How long,
you lazy one, will you keep lying down? When will you rise up from your
sleep? 10 A little more sleep, a little more slumbering, a little more
folding of the hands in lying down, 11 and your poverty will certainly come
just like some rover, and your want like an armed man.
12 A good-for-nothing man, a man of hurtfulness, is walking with crookedness
of speech, 13 winking with his eye, making signs with his foot, making
indications with his fingers. 14 Perverseness is in his heart. He is
fabricating something bad all the time. He keeps sending out merely
contentions. 15 That is why suddenly there will come his disaster; in an
instant he will be broken, and there will be no healing.
16 There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things
detestable to his soul: 17 lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are
shedding innocent blood, 18 a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that
are in a hurry to run to badness, 19 a false witness that launches forth
lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.
20 Observe, O my son, the commandment of your father, and do not forsake the
law of your mother. 21 Tie them upon your heart constantly; bind them upon
your throat. 22 When you walk about, it will lead you; when you lie down, it
will stand guard over you; and when you have waked up, it itself will make
you its concern. 23 For the commandment is a lamp, and a light the law is,
and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life, 24 to guard you against
the bad woman, against the smoothness of the tongue of the foreign woman. 25
Do not desire her prettiness in your heart, and may she not take you with
her lustrous eyes, 26 because in behalf of a woman prostitute [one comes
down] to a round loaf of bread; but as regards another man's wife, she hunts
even for a precious soul. 27 Can a man rake together fire into his bosom and
yet his very garments not be burned? 28 Or can a man walk upon the coals and
his feet themselves not be scorched? 29 Likewise with anyone having
relations with the wife of his fellowman, no one touching her will remain
unpunishable. 30 People do not despise a thief just because he commits
thievery to fill his soul when he is hungry. 31 But, when found, he will
make it good with seven times as much; all the valuables of his house he
will give. 32 Anyone committing adultery with a woman is in want of heart;
he that does it is bringing his own soul to ruin. 33 A plague and dishonor
he will find, and his reproach itself will not be wiped out. 34 For the rage
of an able-bodied man is jealousy, and he will not show compassion in the
day of vengeance. 35 He will have no consideration for any sort of ransom,
neither will he show willingness, no matter how large you make the present.
7 My son, keep my sayings, and may you treasure up my own commandments with
you. 2 Keep my commandments and continue living, and my law like the pupil
of your eyes. 3 Tie them upon your fingers, and write them upon the tablet
of your heart. 4 Say to wisdom: "You are my sister"; and may you call
understanding itself "Kinswoman," 5 to guard you against the woman stranger,
against the foreigner who has made her own sayings smooth. 6 For at the
window of my house, through my lattice I looked down, 7 that I might peer
upon the inexperienced ones. I was interested in discerning among the sons a
young man in want of heart, 8 passing along on the street near her corner,
and in the way to her house he marches, 9 in the twilight, in the evening of
the day, at the approach of the night and the gloom. 10 And, look! there was
a woman to meet him, with the garment of a prostitute and cunning of heart.
11 She is boisterous and stubborn. In her house her feet do not keep
residing. 12 Now she is outdoors, now she is in the public squares, and near
every corner she lies in wait. 13 And she has grabbed hold of him and given
him a kiss. She has put on a bold face, and she begins to say to him:
14 "Communion sacrifices were incumbent upon me. Today I have paid my vows.
15 That is why I have come out to meet you, to look for your face, that I
may find you. 16 With coverlets I have bedecked my divan, with many-colored
things, linen of Egypt. 17 I have besprinkled my bed with myrrh, aloes and
cinnamon. 18 Do come, let us drink our fill of love until the morning; do
let us enjoy each other with love expressions. 19 For the husband is not in
his house; he has gone traveling on a way of some distance. 20 A bag of
money he has taken in his hand. On the day of the full moon he will come to
his house."
21 She has misled him by the abundance of her persuasiveness. By the
smoothness of her lips she seduces him. 22 All of a sudden he is going after
her, like a bull that comes even to the slaughter, and just as if fettered
for the discipline of a foolish man, 23 until an arrow cleaves open his
liver, just as a bird hastens into the trap, and he has not known that it
involves his very soul.
24 And now, O sons, listen to me and pay attention to the sayings of my
mouth. 25 May your heart not turn aside to her ways. Do not wander into her
roadways. 26 For many are the ones she has caused to fall down slain, and
all those being killed by her are numerous. 27 The ways to She'ol her house
is; they are descending to the interior rooms of death.
8 Does not wisdom keep calling out, and discernment keep giving forth its
voice? 2 On top of the heights, by the way, at the crossing of the roadways
it has stationed itself. 3 At the side of the gates, at the mouth of the
town, at the going in of the entrances it keeps crying loudly:
4 "To YOU, O men, I am calling, and my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O
inexperienced ones, understand shrewdness; and YOU stupid ones, understand
heart. 6 Listen, for it is about the foremost things that I speak, and the
opening of my lips is about uprightness. 7 For my palate in low tones utters
truth itself; and wickedness is something detestable to my lips. 8 All the
sayings of my mouth are in righteousness. Among them there is nothing
twisted or crooked. 9 All of them are straight to the discerning one, and
upright to the ones finding knowledge. 10 TAKE my discipline and not silver,
and knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than corals,
and all other delights themselves cannot be made equal to it.
12 "I, wisdom, I have resided with shrewdness and I find even the knowledge
of thinking abilities. 13 The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad.
Self-exaltation and pride and the bad way and the perverse mouth I have
hated. 14 I have counsel and practical wisdom. I-understanding; I have
mightiness. 15 By me kings themselves keep reigning, and high officials
themselves keep decreeing righteousness. 16 By me princes themselves keep
ruling as princes, and nobles are all judging in righteousness. 17 Those
loving me I myself love, and those looking for me are the ones that find me.
18 Riches and glory are with me, hereditary values and righteousness. 19 My
fruitage is better than gold, even than refined gold, and my produce than
choice silver. 20 In the path of righteousness I walk, in the middle of the
roadways of judgment, 21 to cause those loving me to take possession of
substance; and their storehouses I keep filled.
22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of
his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from
the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery
deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs
heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been
settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains,
26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first
part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the
heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery
deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the
fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his
decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he
decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a
master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day,
I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land
of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.
32 "And now, O sons, listen to me; yes, happy are the ones that keep my very
ways. 33 Listen to discipline and become wise, and do not show any neglect.
34 Happy is the man that is listening to me by keeping awake at my doors day
by day, by watching at the posts of my entrances. 35 For the one finding me
will certainly find life, and gets goodwill from Jehovah. 36 But the one
missing me is doing violence to his soul; all those intensely hating me are
the ones that do love death."
9 True wisdom has built its house; it has hewn out its seven pillars. 2 It
has organized its meat slaughtering; it has mixed its wine; more than that,
it has set in order its table. 3 It has sent forth its lady attendants, that
it may call out on top of the heights of the town: 4 "Whoever is
inexperienced, let him turn aside here." Whoever is in want of heart-she has
said to him: 5 "Come, feed yourselves with my bread and share in drinking
the wine that I have mixed. 6 Leave the inexperienced ones and keep living,
and walk straight in the way of understanding."
7 He that is correcting the ridiculer is taking to himself dishonor, and he
that is giving a reproof to someone wicked-a defect in him. 8 Do not reprove
a ridiculer, that he may not hate you. Give a reproof to a wise person and
he will love you. 9 Give to a wise person and he will become still wiser.
Impart knowledge to someone righteous and he will increase in learning.
10 The fear of Jehovah is the start of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Most
Holy One is what understanding is. 11 For by me your days will become many,
and to you years of life will be added. 12 If you have become wise, you have
become wise in your own behalf; and if you have ridiculed, you will bear
[it], just you alone.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:16 AM
And what about a different perspective ... here we go .. yahooooooooooo
....
ISLAMIC LITERATURE
Holy Quran - English translation
The cultural flowering of Islam began at the time when Europe, except for
the Byzantine Empire, was in a state of disintegration--the Dark Ages. When
Europe at last began to emerge from the doldrums, it was in great measure
due to the efforts of Muslims, who had collected and translated into Arabic
many of the ancient Greek philosophical and scientific works.
Although Europeans during the Middle Ages benefited from Islamic treatises
on medicine, geography, mathematics, astronomy, and philosophy, they did not
become acquainted with the original literary creations of the Muslim world.
Even today, the rich heritage of Islamic literature is hardly known in the
West, except for a few examples such as the Koran, the holy book of Islam;
the `Thousand and One Nights' , or `Arabian Nights'; the `Rubáiyát' of Omar
Khayyám; and the 20th-century works of Khalil Gibran. This unfamiliarity is
due in part to the fact that almost all of this literature was written in
languages that often were quite difficult to translate, in part because they
used an alphabet in Semitic script. (See also ` Arabian Nights '; Gibran ;
Koran ; Omar Khayyám .)
Literary Types
The difficulty of translation applied especially to Islamic poetry, which
for centuries used traditional, rigid, and distinctive forms in a highly
stylized way. Prose, in the Western sense of novels, short stories, and
dramas, was not known in the Islamic world until the modern period. What
prose writing there was also used specific forms, and often it, like poetry,
was rhymed. This emphasis on form and style dominated Islamic literature
until the early 19th century, frequently to the detriment of content.
Classical Arabic poetry was built on the principle of the monorhyme, and
the single rhyme was employed throughout a poem, whether it was long or
short. Within the rhyming pattern, there were 16 basic meters in five
groupings, but the poet was not allowed to change the meter in the course of
a poem.
The chief literary types, all poetic forms developed according to
traditional rules, were the qasida, the ghazel, the qitah, the masnavi, and
the roba`i. In prose, the chief genre was the maqamah.
The qasida was developed by pre-Islamic Arabs and has endured in Arabic
literary history up to the present. It consists of an elaborately structured
ode of from 20 to 100 verses and maintains a single end rhyme through the
entire piece. The poem opens with a short prelude, usually a love poem, to
get the reader's attention. This is followed by an account of the poet's
journey, with descriptions of his horse or camel and of desert scenes and
events. The main theme, at the end, is a tribute to the poet's patron, his
tribe, or even himself. After the coming of Islam, the qasida served as an
instrument of praise to God, eulogies of Muhammad, and songs of commendation
or lament for the saints. It was a type of poem that lent itself to displays
of the poet's own knowledge.
The ghazel is a love lyric of from five to 12 verses that probably
originated as an elaboration of the qasida's opening section. The content
was religious, secular, or a combination of both.
The qitah is a literary form used for the less serious matters of everyday
life. Its main function was for satire, jokes, word games, and codes.
Fiction
The masnavi originated in Persia, a country with its own ancient literary
tradition. The term means "the doubled one," or rhyming couplet. The masnavi
became very popular because it enabled the poet to tell a long story by
stringing together thousands of verses. It was the closest approach to the
epic poem that developed in Islamic literature. The Arabs rejected the epic
as a form of fiction, which they felt was akin to falsehood.
The roba`i also has its roots in pre-Islamic Persian poetic tradition. Its
form is a quatrain (four-line verse) in which the first, second, and fourth
lines rhyme. The most famous example of the roba`i is the `Rubáiyát' of Omar
Khayyám.
The maqamah is the most typical expression of the Arabic spirit in rhymed
prose. It was used to tell basically simple and entertaining stories in an
extremely complicated style. Because the maqamah was frequently used to
display the author's wit, learning, and eloquence, it often became so
tangled in convoluted terminology and grammar that it was quite difficult to
comprehend and therefore almost impossible to translate. Only in the late
19th century, under the influence of translations from the European
languages, did its style take on a matter-of-fact manner that made it less
artificial.
The Range of Islamic Literature
The Muslim empire was enormous in size; it included a great diversity of
peoples, many of whom had preserved ancient cultures and languages. For a
long period, Arabic became the literary language for many regions of the
empire; but as time passed, local influences reasserted themselves and
native languages once again came into use. This was particularly true in
Persia, where the Arabic alphabet was adapted to the Persian language.
By the 11th century, northwestern India and the region that is now
Pakistan had become a center of Islamic literature in the Persian language.
Persian remained the language of Muslim India until the 1830s, when it was
succeeded by Urdu, which had borrowed heavily from Persian sources in its
early period during the 18th century.
Central Asia became part of the Muslim empire after 711. With cultural
centers at Samarkand, Bukhara, and Fergana, it was a hub of Islamic
literature and scholarship, much of it in the Arabic language, until the
Russian invasions of the late 19th century. A great deal of the literature
of this region was also written in the Turkic languages; and in later
centuries, when the Seljuq and Ottoman Turks conquered much of the Islamic
empire, their languages displaced Arabic in some areas. After the 14th
century, for example, an elaborate classical Turkish literature developed
that was heavily influenced by Persian styles and vocabulary.
In Spain, at the western end of the empire, the Muslims created a highly
sophisticated culture that reached its apex in the 10th century and
continued to flourish until the Muslims were driven from the country at the
end of the 15th century. It was through Spain that so many of the major
Arabic works in philosophy and the sciences made their way into medieval
Europe.
Hadith
`Ali
Periods of Islamic Literature
Three successive caliphates ruled the Islamic empire: the Patriarchal
(632-661), the Umayyad (661-750), and the `Abbasid (750-1258). In 1258 the
Ottoman Turks invaded and sacked Baghdad, the capital, and murdered the
caliph, thus ending Islamic rule in the eastern section of the empire. A
weak ` Abbasid caliphate survived in Egypt until 1517, while in Spain and
the western part of North Africa separate dynasties continued to rule until
the 15th century. (See also Caliphate .)
The religious zeal of the early Muslims did inspire the beginning of two
significant works, collections that were not completed until later
centuries. The most important was the hadith, the record of the sayings and
deeds of Muhammad. The sudden death of the spiritual and political leader
took the Islamic community by surprise, and within a few decades it was
deemed necessary to preserve all of Muhammad's words and actions since they
were believed to have been inspired. By the 9th century, the hadith had been
solidified into a body of material to which no new traditions were added.
Today the hadith is revered as a major source of religious law and moral
guidance, second only to the Koran.
Another collection that was begun at the same time consists of the
sayings of `Ali, Muhammad's son-in-law and the fourth caliph, whose
followers later established a major division in Islam, Shi`ah. Finally
compiled in the 10th century, the collection is called `The Road of
Eloquence'. It is a masterpiece of Arabic prose that has inspired numerous
commentaries and imitations in other languages.
The Umayyad Caliphate
The Islamic civil wars and the rise of sectarian rivalries contributed to
the emergence of a poetry that became a favorite vehicle for expression of
the divergent points of view. The three greatest poets of the Umayyad period
were all polemicists who used their verses to support political factions.
Al-Akhtal, though a Christian, was a strenuous supporter of the policies
of the first Umayyad, Mu'awiyah I. Jarir and Tammam ibn Ghalib Abu Firas
(al-Farazdaq) were active at the courts of the Umayyad caliphs and their
governors and were ardent supporters of the regime. The two were enemies,
however, and they delighted rival tribesmen with their stinging satires
against each other. The work of these two poets has furnished historians
with a rich vein of material on the social and political climate of Islam
during the early 8th century. They used the traditional qasida form with
great effect, incorporating a wealth of vocabulary and imagination.
A remarkable poet from Mecca, `Umar ibn Abi Rabi`ah, contributed to the
development of the ghazel as a love poem. His poems sing of amorous
adventures with the ladies who came to Mecca on pilgrimage. Using the same
literary form, one of the last Umayyads, al-Walid ibn Yazid, gained a
greater reputation as a poet than as a warrior. His poetry excelled in
frivolous love verses and in odes praising the virtues of wine.
In Medina the vogue was highly idealized love poetry akin to the
chivalric romances of medieval Europe. Supposedly invented by Jamil, this
genre sings of lovers who become martyrs, dying in their total surrender to
the force of true love.
Mesopotamia
The `Abbasid Caliphate
In contrast to the brief 90-year period of the Umayyads, the `Abbasid
caliphate endured for more than five centuries. It was during the `Abbasid
rule, with its capital at Baghdad, that the golden age of Islamic literature
began. In Iraq (ancient Mesopotamia) all the cultural currents of the
ancient Near East came together, and members of the Muslim community
--centered at the court of the caliphs--began to adapt and rework elements
from all the earlier cultures.
The major poets of the ` Abbasid period were Abu Nuwas, Ibn al-Mu`tazz,
Ibn Da'ud, al-Mutanabbi, and al-Ma`arri. The greatest of these was Abu Nuwas,
who had an incomparable command of language and imagery. His witty, cynical
verses and delightful drinking songs scandalized the orthodox Muslims,
however. One of his lines, said to have been his motto, was: "Accumulate as
many sins as you can."
Al-Mu`tazz, in his `Book of the Novel and the Strange', laid down
literary rules governing the use of metaphors, similes, and verbal puns (see
Figures of Speech ). His concept of poetry involved the richest
embellishment of verses by all kinds of figures of speech and rhetorical
devices. In time, his advice produced poetry in which the content was
overpowered by style and verbiage.
The theme of the lover who would rather die than achieve union with his
beloved became central to ghazel poetry in the 10th century. An early
exponent was Ibn Da'ud, a theologian, in his anthology `Book of the Flower'.
Although used in a completely secular way at first, the theme was later
taken over as a major concept in religious mystic poetry. It soon became
commonplace in Persian, Turkish, and Urdu poetry as well. Its influence was
even felt in Spain, where another theologian, Ibn Hazm, drew upon personal
experiences to compose his `The Ring of the Dove', a prose work on pure love
that is interspersed with poetry.
Al-Mutanabbi, one of the greatest Arab poets, was in the mainstream of
classical qasida poets, but his work surpassed that of his predecessors in
imagination. His compositions were noted for their exaggeration, sound
effects, and formal perfection.
The verses of al-Ma`arri, the blind Syrian poet, continue to appeal to
young Arab readers today. Yet their vocabulary is so difficult, and meanings
so compressed in his double rhymes, that even his contemporaries had to ask
him to interpret them. His outlook is deeply pessimistic and skeptical,
running counter to the heroic idealism of his time. He taunted the
privileged classes of his day and expressed a strong contempt for hypocrisy,
injustice, and superstition. Pious Muslims supposedly were offended by his
`Paragraphs and Periods' because they felt it to be a parody of the holy
Koran. His `Epistle of Pardon', which describes a visit to the world of the
afterlife, also contains sarcastic criticism of Arabic literature.
During the reign of the `Abbasid empire, literary prose also began to
develop. Writers were consumed by an insatiable curiosity for all kinds of
knowledge, a curiosity that led them to compile and translate scholarly and
philosophical works from other cultures.
Ibn al-Muqaffa` translated the fables of Bidpai, an Indian sage, into
Arabic. These stories provided Islamic culture with a seemingly
inexhaustible fund of tales and parables from the animal world, comparable
in some respects to the fables of Aesop and La Fontaine (see Fable ). He
also introduced into Arabic the Persian `Book of Kings', a type of
pre-Islamic mythology that sophisticated Muslims preferred to the rather
meager accounts of the Arab pagan past. His translations of writings on
ethics and the conduct of government are the prototype of the "Mirror for
Princes" literature that flourished during the late Middle Ages in both Iran
and the West.
In response to the growing interest in life outside the Islamic world,
al-Jahiz of Basra wrote treatises on many subjects. The `Elegance of
Expression and Clarity of Exposition' dealt with literary style and the
effective use of language. His `Book of Misers' is a collection of stories
about the avaricious. Although an intellectual free spirit, al-Jahiz
supported government policy by writing "Exploits of the Turks," an essay on
the military qualities of Turkish soldiers, upon whose strength the
government depended. His `Book of Animals' has little to do with zoology,
but it is a mine of information on Arab proverbs, superstitions, and
traditions.
One of the most vigorous prose stylists was Abu Hayyan at-Tawhidi. His
book denouncing the weaknesses of two of the caliph' s viziers (governors)
for their literary ambitions highlights his brilliance and eloquence.
The rhetorical style of rhymed prose found its best expression in the
maqamah, which was invented by al-Hamadhani. The master of this form was al-Hariri
of Basra, whose 50 maqamahs are closer to the Western notion of the short
story than anything else in classical Islamic literature.
Mysticism
Spain and North Africa
Despite its remoteness from the `Abbasid center at Baghdad, Spain
experienced a parallel flowering of literature during its Muslim period, one
that flourished under its own Umayyad caliphate. The culture of the Western
land contains some of the greatest names in Islamic literature.
Prominent in the field of philosophy were Avicenna and Averroës. The
outstanding work of Avicenna in philosophy, science, and medicine was highly
regarded in the rest of Europe. Averroës, court physician of the Berber
kings at Marrakech in Morocco, was the Arab commentator on Aristotle whose
work helped form medieval Christian theology in Europe. Among his most
notable writings was an attack on the Islamic mystic al- Ghazali, whose `The
Incoherence of the Philosophers' elicited from Averroës `The Incoherence of
the Incoherence'. Al-Ghazali, however, has a well-deserved reputation as the
most influential of the mystic writers; his chief work is `The Revival of
the Religious Sciences'. (See also Averroës ; Avicenna .)
Another prominent mystic, Ibn al-`Arabi, was educated in the Spanish
tradition but wrote poetry and prose that shaped large parts of Islamic
thought for centuries afterward. His chief work was `The Meccan
Revelations'. He also wrote a volume of love poems entitled `The Interpreter
of Desires', in which wisdom was the object of his quest.
Arab scholars from North Africa made substantial contributions to
geography after the 9th century. The geographer al-Idrisi produced a world
map, together with detailed descriptions, in his `The Delight of Him Who
Wishes to Traverse the Regions of the World' (see Idrisi, al- ).
Perhaps the greatest world traveler of his time was Ibn Battutah, a
native of North Africa who explored the Far East, India, and the region of
the Niger in Africa (see Ibn Battutah ). In all, it is estimated that he
traveled about 75,000 miles (120,000 kilometers) and visited nearly every
Muslim country. His `Rihlah' (Travels), written in about 1353, is filled
with information about the cultural state of the Muslim world of his time.
The Tunisian Ibn Khaldun was one of the great social scientists of all
time (see Ibn Khaldun ). His masterpiece, the `Muqaddimah' (Introduction),
is filled with brilliant observations on the writing of history, economics,
politics, and education. It has long been regarded as one of the finest
philosophies of history ever written.
`Shah Nameh'
`Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám'
Sa`di
The Persian Influence
During the `Abbasid period a great Persian literature emerged, some of it in
Arabic. Of the large number of Persian authors in this period, the most
significant were Firdawsi, Awhad ad-Din `Ali (known as Anvari), al-Biruni,
Omar Khayyám, Jalal ad-Din ar-Rumi, Sa`di, and Amir Khosrow.
In the early era of Persian Islamic literature, the greatest achievement
was that of Firdawsi (Abu ol-Qasem Mansur) (see Firdawsi ). He compiled all
the inherited tales and legends of the Persian kings into one great national
epic, the `Shah-nameh'. Completed in the early 11th century, it contains
nearly 60,000 verses in short rhyming couplets.
Anvari was the most accomplished writer of panegyrics, or formal
eulogies, using the qasida form of poetry. His `Tears of Khorasan' mourns
the passing glory of the Seljuk Turks. He was not only well versed in Arabic
and Persian literature but was skilled in logic, geometry, astronomy,
astrology, music, natural science, and philosophy. In addition to excelling
in the art of the qasida, he used the ghazel, roba`i, qitah, and masnavi
with great skill.
Al-Biruni, one of the most learned men of his time, was conversant with
Hebrew, Turkish, Sanskrit, Persian, and Syriac in addition to Arabic. His
most famous works were `Chronology of Ancient Nations', `Elements of
Astrology', `A History of India', and `The Mas`udi Canon', a major work on
astronomy.
Another scientist and mathematician, Omar Khayyám, became famous in the
West for his `Rubáiyát' (see Omar Khayyám ). This work is a volume of
quatrains that was freely translated into English by Edward FitzGerald and
published in 1859. Each quatrain is an independent poem, but is related to
the others by the recurrence of common themes. There is some question
whether Omar actually wrote all the poetry attributed to him, since his
contemporaries took no notice of his verses. The most famous of his
quatrains is:
A book of verses underneath the bough
A jug of wine, a loaf of bread--and thou
Beside me singing in the wilderness
Oh, wilderness were paradise enow!
Jalal was the best-known writer of mystical poetry in the masnavi style
(see Jalal ad-Din ar-Rumi ). His finest work is known simply as the `Masnavi'
and comprises, in about 26,000 verses, an encyclopedia of the mystical
thought of the 13th century. Many Sufis (Islamic mystics) regard it as
second in importance only to the Koran. Jalal was also the author of love
lyrics that surpass in beauty even the tales in his `Masnavi'. Sa`di was one
of the greatest figures in classical Persian literature. A native of Shiraz,
he dedicated `The Orchard', one of his two most famous works, to the local
ruler. Written entirely in verse, `The Orchard' consists of stories
illustrating the virtues Muslims are supposed to possess. `The Rose Garden',
which is mainly prose interspersed with short poems, contains advice,
aphorisms, and humorous reflections.
Amir Khosrow was one of India's most significant Persian-language poets. He
wrote panegyrics of seven successive kings of Delhi. His `Khamseh' (Pentology),
written in emulation of a work of the same name by another Persian author,
is a group of five long idylls in the masnavi style about general themes in
Islamic literature.
By the time of Amir Khosrows death in 1325, the `Abbasid caliphate had
been gone for nearly 75 years. The golden age of Islamic literature was
passing. Regional literatures were beginning to take its place in Persia,
Central Asia, India, and North Africa.
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
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13 A woman of stupidity is boisterous. She is simplemindedness itself and
has come to know nothing whatever. 14 And she has seated herself at the
entrance of her house, upon a seat, [in] the high places of the town, 15 to
call out to those passing along the way, those who are going straight ahead
on their paths: 16 "Whoever is inexperienced, let him turn aside here." And
whoever is in want of heart-she has also said to him: 17 "Stolen waters
themselves are sweet, and bread [eaten] in secrecy-it is pleasant." 18 But
he has not come to know that those impotent in death are there, that those
called in by her are in the low places of She'ol.
10 Proverbs of Sol'o·mon.
A wise son is the one that makes a father rejoice, and a stupid son is the
grief of his mother. 2 The treasures of the wicked one will be of no
benefit, but righteousness is what will deliver from death. 3 Jehovah will
not cause the soul of the righteous one to go hungry, but the craving of the
wicked ones he will push away.
4 The one working with a slack hand will be of little means, but the hand of
the diligent one is what will make one rich.
5 The son acting with insight is gathering during the summertime; the son
acting shamefully is fast asleep during the harvest.
6 Blessings are for the head of the righteous one, but as regards the mouth
of the wicked ones, it covers up violence. 7 The remembrance of the
righteous one is due for a blessing, but the very name of the wicked ones
will rot.
8 The one wise in heart will accept commandments, but the one foolish with
his lips will be trodden down.
9 He that is walking in integrity will walk in security, but he that is
making his ways crooked will make himself known.
10 The one winking his eye will give pain, and the one foolish with his lips
will be trodden down. 11 The mouth of the righteous one is a source of life;
but as regards the mouth of the wicked ones, it covers up violence.
12 Hatred is what stirs up contentions, but love covers over even all
transgressions.
13 On the lips of the understanding person wisdom is found, but the rod is
for the back of one in want of heart.
14 The wise are the ones that treasure up knowledge, but the mouth of the
foolish one is near to ruin itself.
15 The valuable things of a rich man are his strong town. The ruin of the
lowly ones is their poverty.
16 The activity of the righteous one results in life; the produce of the
wicked one results in sin.
17 He that is holding to discipline is a path to life, but he that is
leaving reproof is causing to wander.
18 Where there is one covering over hatred there are lips of falsehood, and
the one bringing forth a bad report is stupid.
19 In the abundance of words there does not fail to be transgression, but
the one keeping his lips in check is acting discreetly.
20 The tongue of the righteous one is choice silver; the heart of the wicked
one is worth little.
21 The very lips of the righteous one keep pasturing many, but for want of
heart the foolish themselves keep dying.
22 The blessing of Jehovah-that is what makes rich, and he adds no pain with
it.
23 To the stupid one the carrying on of loose conduct is like sport, but
wisdom is for the man of discernment.
24 The thing frightful to the wicked one-that is what will come to him; but
the desire of the righteous ones will be granted. 25 As when the storm wind
passes over, so the wicked one is no more; but the righteous one is a
foundation to time indefinite.
26 As vinegar to the teeth and as smoke to the eyes, so the lazy man is to
those sending him forth.
27 The very fear of Jehovah will add days, but the years themselves of the
wicked ones will be cut short.
28 The expectation of the righteous ones is a rejoicing, but the very hope
of the wicked ones will perish.
29 The way of Jehovah is a stronghold for the blameless one, but ruin is for
the practicers of what is hurtful.
30 As for the righteous one, to time indefinite he will not be caused to
stagger; but as for the wicked ones, they will not keep residing on the
earth.
31 The mouth of the righteous one-it bears the fruit of wisdom, but the
tongue of perverseness will be cut off.
32 The lips of the righteous one-they come to know goodwill, but the mouth
of the wicked ones is perverseness.
11 A cheating pair of scales is something detestable to Jehovah, but a
complete stone-weight is a pleasure to him.
2 Has presumptuousness come? Then dishonor will come; but wisdom is with the
modest ones.
3 The integrity of the upright ones is what leads them, but distortion by
those dealing treacherously will despoil them.
4 Valuable things will be of no benefit on the day of fury, but
righteousness itself will deliver from death.
5 The righteousness of the blameless one is what will make his way straight,
but in his own wickedness the wicked one will fall. 6 The righteousness of
the upright ones is what will deliver them, but by their craving those
dealing treacherously will themselves be caught.
7 When a wicked man dies, [his] hope perishes; and even expectation [based]
on powerfulness has perished.
8 The righteous is the one rescued even from distress, and the wicked one
comes in instead of him.
9 By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin,
but by knowledge are the righteous rescued.
10 Because of the goodness of the righteous ones a town is elated, but when
the wicked ones perish there is a joyful cry.
11 Because of the blessing of the upright ones a town is exalted, but
because of the mouth of the wicked ones it gets torn down.
12 The one in want of heart has despised his own fellowman, but the man of
broad discernment is one that keeps silent.
13 The one walking about as a slanderer is uncovering confidential talk, but
the one faithful in spirit is covering over a matter.
14 When there is no skillful direction, the people fall; but there is
salvation in the multitude of counselors.
15 One will positively fare badly because he has gone surety for a stranger,
but the one hating handshaking is keeping carefree.
16 A woman of charm is the one that takes hold of glory; but the tyrants,
for their part, take hold of riches.
17 A man of loving-kindness is dealing rewardingly with his own soul, but
the cruel person is bringing ostracism upon his own organism.
18 The wicked one is making false wages, but the one sowing righteousness,
true earnings.
19 The one firmly standing for righteousness is in line for life, but the
one chasing after what is bad is in line for his own death.
20 Those crooked at heart are something detestable to Jehovah, but the ones
blameless in [their] way are a pleasure to him.
21 Though hand be to hand, a bad person will not go unpunished; but the
offspring of the righteous ones will certainly escape.
22 As a gold nose ring in the snout of a pig, so is a woman that is pretty
but that is turning away from sensibleness.
23 The desire of the righteous ones is surely good; the hope of the wicked
ones is fury.
24 There exists the one that is scattering and yet is being increased; also
the one that is keeping back from what is right, but it results only in
want.
25 The generous soul will itself be made fat, and the one freely watering
[others] will himself also be freely watered.
26 The one holding back grain-the populace will execrate him, but there is a
blessing for the head of the one letting it be bought.
27 He that is looking for good will keep seeking goodwill; but as for the
one searching for bad, it will come upon him.
28 The one trusting in his riches-he himself will fall; but just like
foliage the righteous ones will flourish.
29 As for anyone bringing ostracism upon his own house, he will take
possession of wind; and a foolish person will be a servant to the one wise
in heart.
30 The fruitage of the righteous one is a tree of life, and he that is
winning souls is wise.
31 Look! The righteous one-in the earth he will be rewarded. How much more
should the wicked one and the sinner be!
12 A lover of discipline is a lover of knowledge, but a hater of reproof is
unreasoning.
2 One that is good gets approval from Jehovah, but the man of [wicked] ideas
he pronounces wicked.
3 No man will be firmly established by wickedness; but as for the
root-foundation of the righteous ones, it will not be caused to stagger.
4 A capable wife is a crown to her owner, but as rottenness in his bones is
she that acts shamefully.
5 The thoughts of the righteous ones are judgment; the steering by the
wicked ones is deception.
6 The words of the wicked ones are a lying in wait for blood, but the mouth
of the upright ones is what will deliver them.
7 There is an overthrowing of the wicked ones and they are no more, but the
very house of the righteous ones will keep standing.
8 For his mouth of discretion a man will be praised, but one who is twisted
at heart will come to be for contempt.
9 Better is the one lightly esteemed but having a servant than the one
glorifying himself but in want of bread.
10 The righteous one is caring for the soul of his domestic animal, but the
mercies of the wicked ones are cruel.
11 The one cultivating his ground will himself be satisfied with bread, but
the one pursuing valueless things is in want of heart.
12 The wicked one has desired the netted prey of bad men; but as for the
root of the righteous ones, it yields.
13 By the transgression of the lips the bad person is ensnared, but the
righteous one gets out of distress.
14 From the fruitage of a man's mouth he is satisfied with good, and the
very doing of a man's hands will come back to him.
15 The way of the foolish one is right in his own eyes, but the one
listening to counsel is wise.
16 It is a foolish person that makes known his vexation in the [same] day,
but the shrewd one is covering over a dishonor.
17 He that launches forth faithfulness will tell what is righteous, but a
false witness, deception.
18 There exists the one speaking thoughtlessly as with the stabs of a sword,
but the tongue of the wise ones is a healing.
19 It is the lip of truth that will be firmly established forever, but the
tongue of falsehood will be only as long as a moment.
20 Deception is in the heart of those fabricating mischief, but those
counseling peace have rejoicing.
21 Nothing hurtful will befall the righteous one, but the wicked are the
ones that will certainly be filled with calamity.
22 False lips are something detestable to Jehovah, but those acting in
faithfulness are a pleasure to him.
23 A shrewd man is covering knowledge, but the heart of the stupid ones is
one that calls out foolishness.
24 The hand of the diligent ones is the one that will rule, but the slack
hand will come to be for forced labor.
25 Anxious care in the heart of a man is what will cause it to bow down, but
the good word is what makes it rejoice.
26 The righteous one spies out his own pasturage, but the very way of wicked
ones causes them to wander about.
27 Slackness will not start up one's game animals, but the diligent one is a
man's precious wealth.
28 In the path of righteousness there is life, and the journey in its
pathway means no death.
13 A son is wise where there is a father's discipline, but the ridiculer is
one that has not heard rebuke.
2 From the fruitage of his mouth a man will eat good, but the very soul of
those dealing treacherously is violence.
3 The one guarding his mouth is keeping his soul. The one opening wide his
lips-he will have ruin.
4 The lazy one is showing himself desirous, but his soul [has] nothing.
However, the very soul of the diligent ones will be made fat.
5 A false word is what the righteous hates, but the wicked ones act
shamefully and cause disgrace for themselves.
6 Righteousness itself safeguards the one who is harmless in his way, but
wickedness is what subverts the sinner.
7 There exists the one that is pretending to be rich and yet he has nothing
at all; there is the one that is pretending to be of little means and yet
[he has] many valuable things.
8 The ransom for a man's soul is his riches, but the one of little means has
not heard rebuke.
9 The very light of the righteous ones will rejoice; but the lamp of the
wicked ones-it will be extinguished.
10 By presumptuousness one only causes a struggle, but with those consulting
together there is wisdom.
11 Valuable things resulting from vanity become fewer, but the one
collecting by the hand is the one that makes increase.
12 Expectation postponed is making the heart sick, but the thing desired is
a tree of life when it does come.
13 He that has despised the word, from him a [debtor's] pledge will be
seized; but the one fearing the commandment is the one that will be
rewarded.
14 The law of the wise one is a source of life, to turn one away from the
snares of death.
15 Good insight itself gives favor, but the way of those dealing
treacherously is rugged.
16 Everyone shrewd will act with knowledge, but the one that is stupid will
spread abroad foolishness.
17 A messenger that is wicked will fall into bad, but a faithful envoy is a
healing.
18 The one neglecting discipline [comes to] poverty and dishonor, but the
one keeping a reproof is the one that is glorified.
19 Desire when realized is pleasurable to the soul; but it is something
detestable to the stupid ones to turn away from bad.
20 He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is
having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.
21 Sinners are the ones whom calamity pursues, but the righteous are the
ones whom good rewards.
22 One who is good will leave an inheritance to sons of sons, and the wealth
of the sinner is something treasured up for the righteous one.
23 Plowed ground of persons of little means [yields] a great deal of food,
but there exists the one that is swept away for lack of judgment.
24 The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is
he that does look for him with discipline.
25 The righteous is eating to the satisfaction of his soul, but the belly of
the wicked ones will be empty.
14 The truly wise woman has built up her house, but the foolish one tears it
down with her own hands.
2 The one walking in his uprightness is fearing Jehovah, but the one crooked
in his ways is despising Him.
3 The rod of haughtiness is in the mouth of the foolish one, but the very
lips of the wise ones will guard them.
4 Where there are no cattle the manger is clean, but the crop is abundant
because of the power of a bull.
5 A faithful witness is one that will not lie, but a false witness launches
forth mere lies.
6 The ridiculer has sought to find wisdom, and there is none; but to the
understanding one knowledge is an easy thing.
7 Go away from in front of the stupid man, for you will certainly not take
note of the lips of knowledge.
8 The wisdom of the shrewd is to understand his way, but the foolishness of
stupid ones is deception.
9 Foolish are those who make a derision of guilt, but among the upright ones
there is agreement.
10 The heart is aware of the bitterness of one's soul, and with its
rejoicing no stranger will intermeddle.
11 The house of wicked people will be annihilated, but the tent of the
upright ones will flourish.
12 There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death
are the end of it afterward.
13 Even in laughter the heart may be in pain; and grief is what rejoicing
ends up in.
14 The one faithless at heart will be satisfied with the results of his own
ways, but the good man with the results of his dealings.
15 Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one
considers his steps.
16 The wise one fears and is turning away from badness, but the stupid is
becoming furious and self-confident.
17 He that is quick to anger will commit foolishness, but the man of
thinking abilities is hated.
18 The inexperienced ones will certainly take possession of foolishness, but
the shrewd ones will bear knowledge as a headdress.
19 Bad people will have to bow down before the good ones, and the wicked
people at the gates of the righteous one.
20 Even to his fellowman one who is of little means is an object of hatred,
but many are the friends of the rich person.
21 The one despising his own fellowman is sinning, but happy is he who is
showing favor to the afflicted ones.
22 Will not those devising mischief go wandering about? But there are
loving-kindness and trueness as regards those devising good.
23 By every kind of toil there comes to be an advantage, but merely the word
of the lips [tends] to want.
24 The crown of the wise is their riches; the foolishness of the stupid ones
is foolishness.
25 A true witness is delivering souls, but a deceitful one launches forth
mere lies.
26 In the fear of Jehovah there is strong confidence, and for his sons there
will come to be a refuge.
27 The fear of Jehovah is a well of life, to turn away from the snares of
death.
28 In the multitude of people there is an adornment of a king, but in the
lack of population is the ruin of a high official.
29 He that is slow to anger is abundant in discernment, but one that is
impatient is exalting foolishness.
30 A calm heart is the life of the fleshly organism, but jealousy is
rottenness to the bones.
31 He that is defrauding the lowly one has reproached his Maker, but the one
showing favor to the poor one is glorifying Him.
32 Because of his badness the wicked will be pushed down, but the righteous
will be finding refuge in his integrity.
33 In the heart of the understanding one there rests wisdom, and in the
midst of stupid ones it becomes known.
34 Righteousness is what exalts a nation, but sin is something disgraceful
to national groups.
35 The pleasure of a king is in the servant who is acting with insight, but
his fury comes to be toward one acting shamefully.
15 An answer, when mild, turns away rage, but a word causing pain makes
anger to come up.
2 The tongue of wise ones does good with knowledge, but the mouth of the
stupid ones bubbles forth with foolishness.
3 The eyes of Jehovah are in every place, keeping watch upon the bad ones
and the good ones.
4 The calmness of the tongue is a tree of life, but distortion in it means a
breaking down in the spirit.
5 Anyone foolish disrespects the discipline of his father, but anyone
regarding reproof is shrewd.
6 In the house of the righteous one there is an abundant store, but in the
produce of the wicked one there is a becoming ostracized.
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Constitutionalist:
Stick a fork in this thread, it's done.
It sure is.
Now for someting completely different

The Koran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Children of Israel
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[17.1] Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the
Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts,
so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the
Seeing.
[17.2] And We gave Musa the Book and made it a guidance to the children of
Israel, saying: Do not take a protector besides Me;
[17.3] The offspring of those whom We bore with Nuh; surely he was a
grateful servant.
[17.4] And We had made known to the children of Israel in the Book: Most
certainly you will make mischief in the land twice, and most certainly you
will behave insolently with great insolence.
[17.5] So when the promise for the first of the two came, We sent over you
Our servants, of mighty prowess, so they went to and fro among the houses,
and it was a promise to be accomplished.
[17.6] Then We gave you back the turn to prevail against them, and aided you
with wealth and children and made you a numerous band.
[17.7] If you do good, you will do good for your own souls, and if you do
evil, it shall be for them. So when the second promise came (We raised
another people) that they may bring you to grief and that they may enter the
mosque as they entered it the first time, and that they might destroy
whatever they gained ascendancy over with utter destruction.
[17.8] It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you again
return (to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have
made hell a prison for the unbelievers.
[17.9] Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good
news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward.
[17.10] And that (as for) those who do not believe in the hereafter, We have
prepared for them a painful chastisement.
[17.11] And man prays for evil as he ought to pray for good, and man is ever
hasty.
[17.12] And We have made the night and the day two signs, then We have made
the sign of the night to pass away and We have made the sign of the day
manifest, so that you may seek grace from your Lord, and that you might know
the numbering of years and the reckoning; and We have explained everything
with distinctness.
[17.13] And We have made every man's actions to cling to his neck, and We
will bring forth to him on the resurrection day a book which he will find
wide open:
[17.14] Read your book; your own self is sufficient as a reckoner against
you this day.
[17.15] Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and whoever
goes astray, to its detriment only does he go astray: nor can the bearer of
a burden bear the burden of another, nor do We chastise until We raise an
apostle.
[17.16] And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the
people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word
proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.
[17.17] And how many of the generations did We destroy after Nuh! and your
Lord is sufficient as Knowing and Seeing with regard to His servants'
faults.
[17.18] Whoever desires this present life, We hasten to him therein what We
please for whomsoever We desire, then We assign to him the hell; he shall
enter it despised, driven away.
[17.19] And whoever desires the hereafter and strives for it as he ought to
strive and he is a believer; (as for) these, their striving shall surely be
accepted.
[17.20] All do We aid-- these as well as those-- out of the bounty of your
Lord, and the bounty of your Lord is not confined.
[17.21] See how We have made some of them to excel others, and certainly the
hereafter is much superior in respect of excellence.
[17.22] Do not associate with Allah any other god, lest you sit down
despised, neglected.
[17.23] And your Lord has commanded that you shall not serve (any) but Him,
and goodness to your parents. If either or both of them reach old age with
you, say not to them (so much as) "Ugh" nor chide them, and speak to them a
generous word.
[17.24] And make yourself submissively gentle to them with compassion, and
say: O my Lord! have compassion on them, as they brought me up (when I was)
little.
[17.25] Your Lord knows best what is in your minds; if you are good, then He
is surely Forgiving to those who turn (to Him) frequently.
[17.26] And give to the near of kin his due and (to) the needy and the
wayfarer, and do not squander wastefully.
[17.27] Surely the squanderers are the fellows of the Shaitans and the
Shaitan is ever ungrateful to his Lord.
[17.28] And if you turn away from them to seek mercy from your Lord, which
you hope for, speak to them a gentle word.
[17.29] And do not make your hand to be shackled to your neck nor stretch it
forth to the utmost (limit) of its stretching forth, lest you should
(afterwards) sit down blamed, stripped off.
[17.30] Surely your Lord makes plentiful the means of subsistence for whom
He pleases and He straitens (them); surely He is ever Aware of, Seeing, His
servants.
[17.31] And do not kill your children for fear of poverty; We give them
sustenance and yourselves (too); surely to kill them is a great wrong.
[17.32] And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an
evil way.
[17.33] And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just
cause, and whoever is slain unjustly, We have indeed given to his heir
authority, so let him not exceed the just limits in slaying; surely he is
aided.
[17.34] And draw not near to the property of the orphan except in a goodly
way till he attains his maturity and fulfill the promise; surely (every)
promise shall be questioned about.
[17.35] And give full measure when you measure out, and weigh with a true
balance; this is fair and better in the end.
[17.36] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the
hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about
that.
[17.37] And do not go about in the land exultingly, for you cannot cut
through the earth nor reach the mountains in height.
[17.38] All this-- the evil of it-- is hateful in the sight of your Lord.
[17.39] This is of what your Lord has revealed to you of wisdom, and do not
associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell,
blamed, cast away.
[17.40] What! has then your Lord preferred to give you sons, and (for
Himself) taken daughters from among the angels? Most surely you utter a
grievous saying.
[17.41] And certainly We have repeated (warnings) in this Quran that they
may be mindful, but it does not add save to their aversion.
[17.42] Say: If there were with Him gods as they say, then certainly they
would have been able to seek a way to the Lord of power.
[17.43] Glory be to Him and exalted be He in high exaltation above what they
say.
[17.44] The seven heavens declare His glory and the earth (too), and those
who are in them; and there is not a single thing but glorifies Him with His
praise, but you do not understand their glorification; surely He is
Forbearing, Forgiving.
[17.45] And when you recite the Quran, We place between you and those who do
not believe in the hereafter a hidden barrier;
[17.46] And We have placed coverings on their hearts and a heaviness in
their ears lest they understand it, and when you mention your Lord alone in
the Quran they turn their backs in aversion.
[17.47] We know best what they listen to when they listen to you, and when
they take counsel secretly, when the unjust say: You follow only a man
deprived of reason.
[17.48] See what they liken you to! So they have gone astray and cannot find
the way.
[17.49] And they say: What! when we shall have become bones and decayed
particles, shall we then certainly be raised up, being a new creation?
[17.50] Say: Become stones or iron,
[17.51] Or some other creature of those which are too hard (to receive life)
in your minds! But they will say: Who will return us? Say: Who created you
at first. Still they will shake their heads at you and say: When will it be?
Say: Maybe it has drawn nigh.
[17.52] On the day when He will call you forth, then shall you obey Him,
giving Him praise, and you will think that you tarried but a little (while).
[17.53] And say to My servants (that) they speak that which is best; surely
the Shaitan sows dissensions among them; surely the Shaitan is an open enemy
to man.
[17.54] Your Lord knows you best; He will have mercy on you if He pleases,
or He will chastise you if He pleases; and We have not sent you as being in
charge of them.
[17.55] And your Lord best knows those who are in the heavens and the earth;
and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, and to
Dawood We gave a scripture.
[17.56] Say: Call on those whom you assert besides Him, so they shall not
control the removal of distress from you nor (its) transference.
[17.57] Those whom they call upon, themselves seek the means of access to
their Lord-- whoever of them is nearest-- and they hope for His mercy and
fear His chastisement; surely the chastisement of your Lord is a thing to be
cautious of.
[17.58] And there is not a town but We will destroy it before the day of
resurrection or chastise it with a severe chastisement; this is written in
the Divine ordinance.
[17.59] And nothing could have hindered Us that We should send signs except
that the ancients rejected them; and We gave to Samood the she-camel-- a
manifest sign-- but on her account they did injustice, and We do not send
signs but to make (men) fear.
[17.60] And when We said to you: Surely your Lord encompasses men; and We
did not make the vision which We showed you but a trial for men and the
cursed tree in the Quran as well; and We cause them to fear, but it only
adds to their great inordinacy.
[17.61] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made
obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He said: Shall I make obeisance to him
whom Thou hast created of dust?
[17.62] He said: Tell me, is this he whom Thou hast honored above me? If
Thou shouldst respite me to the day of resurrection, I will most certainly
cause his progeny to perish except a few.
[17.63] He said: Be gone! for whoever of them will follow you, then surely
hell is your recompense, a full recompense:
[17.64] And beguile whomsoever of them you can with your voice, and collect
against them your forces riding and on foot, and share with them in wealth
and children, and hold out promises to them; and the Shaitan makes not
promises to them but to deceive:
[17.65] Surely (as for) My servants, you have no authority over them; and
your Lord is sufficient as a Protector.
[17.66] Your Lord is He Who speeds the ships for you in the sea that you may
seek of His grace; surely He is ever Merciful to you.
[17.67] And when distress afflicts you in the sea, away go those whom you
call on except He; but when He brings you safe to the land, you turn aside;
and man is ever ungrateful.
[17.68] What! Do you then feel secure that He will not cause a tract of land
to engulf you or send on you a tornado? Then you shall not find a protector
for yourselves.
[17.69] Or, do you feel secure that He will (not) take you back into it
another time, then send on you a fierce gale and thus drown you on account
of your ungratefulness? Then you shall not find any aider against Us in the
matter.
[17.70] And surely We have honored the children of Adam, and We carry them
in the land and the sea, and We have given them of the good things, and We
have made them to excel by an appropriate excellence over most of those whom
We have created.
[17.71] (Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam;
then whoever is given his book in his right hand, these shall read their
book; and they shall not be dealt with a whit unjustly.
[17.72] And whoever is blind in this, he shall (also) be blind in the
hereafter; and more erring from the way.
[17.73] And surely they had purposed to turn you away from that which We
have revealed to you, that you should forge against Us other than that, and
then they would certainly have taken you for a friend.
[17.74] And had it not been that We had already established you, you would
certainly have been near to incline to them a little;
[17.75] In that case We would certainly have made you to taste a double
(punishment) in this life and a double (punishment) after death, then you
would not have found any helper against Us.
[17.76] And.surely they purposed to unsettle you from the land that they
might expel you from it, and in that case they will not tarry behind you but
a little.
[17.77] (This is Our) course with regard to those of Our apostles whom We
sent before you, and you shall not find a change in Our course.
[17.78] Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of
the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is
witnessed.
[17.79] And during a part of the night, pray Tahajjud beyond what is
incumbent on you; maybe your Lord will raise you to a position of great
glory.
[17.80] And say: My Lord! make me to enter a goodly entering, and cause me
to go forth a goodly going forth, and grant me from near Thee power to
assist (me).
[17.81] And say: The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely
falsehood is a vanishing (thing).
[17.82] And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to
the believers, and it adds only to the perdition of the unjust.
[17.83] And when We bestow favor on man, he turns aside and behaves proudly,
and when evil afflicts him, he is despairing.
[17.84] Say: Every one acts according to his manner; but your Lord best
knows who is best guided in the path.
[17.85] And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is one of the
commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little.
[17.86] And if We please, We should certainly take away that which We have
revealed to you, then you would not find for it any protector against Us.
[17.87] But on account of mercy from your Lord-- surely His grace to you is
abundant.
[17.88] Say: If men and jinn should combine together to bring the like of
this Quran, they could not bring the like of it, though some of them were
aiders of others.
[17.89] And certainly We have explained for men in this Quran every kind of
similitude, but most men do not consent to aught but denying.
[17.90] And they say: We will by no means believe in you until you cause a
fountain to gush forth from the earth for us.
[17.91] Or you should have a garden of palms and grapes in the midst of
which you should cause rivers to flow forth, gushing out.
[17.92] Or you should cause the heaven to come down upon us in pieces as you
think, or bring Allah and the angels face to face (with us).
[17.93] Or you should have a house of gold, or you should ascend into
heaven, and we will not believe in your ascending until you bring down to us
a book which we may read. Say: Glory be to my Lord; am I aught but a mortal
apostle?
[17.94] And nothing prevented people from believing when the guidance came
to them except that they said: What! has Allah raised up a mortal to be an
apostle?
[17.95] Say: Had there been in the earth angels walking about as settlers,
We would certainly have sent down to them from the heaven an angel as an
apostle.
[17.96] Say: Allah suffices as a witness between me and you; surely He is
Aware of His servants, Seeing.
[17.97] And whomsoever Allah guides, he is the follower of the right way,
and whomsoever He causes to err, you shall not find for him guardians
besides Him; and We will gather them together on the day of resurrection on
their faces, blind and dumb and deaf; their abode is hell; whenever it
becomes allayed We will add to their burning.
[17.98] This is their retribution because they disbelieved in Our
communications and said What! when we shall have become bones and decayed
particles, shall we then indeed be raised up into a new creation?
[17.99] Do they not consider that Allah, Who created the heavens and the
earth, is able to create their like, and He has appointed for them a doom
about which there is no doubt? But the unjust do not consent to aught but
denying.
[17.100] Say: If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you
would withhold (them) from fear of spending, and man is niggardly.
[17.101] And certainly We gave Musa nine clear signs; so ask the children of
Israel. When he came to them, Firon said to him: Most surely I deem you, O
Musa, to be a man deprived of reason.
[17.102] He said: Truly you know that none but the Lord of the heavens and
the earth has sent down these as clear proof and most surely I believe you,
O Firon, to be given over to perdition.
[17.103] So he desired to destroy them out of the earth, but We drowned him
and those with him all together;
[17.104] And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and
when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both
together in judgment.
[17.105] And with truth have We revealed it, and with truth did it come; and
We have not sent you but as the giver of good news and as a warner.
[17.106] And it is a Quran which We have revealed in portions so that you
may read it to the people by slow degrees, and We have revealed it,
revealing in portions.
[17.107] Say: Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the
knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is
recited to them.
[17.108] And they say: Glory be to our Lord! most surely the promise of our
Lord was to be fulfilled.
[17.109] And they fall down on their faces weeping, and it adds to their
humility.
[17.110] Say: Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent God; whichever
you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a
very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between
these.
[17.111] And say: (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and
Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him
from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Koran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Holy Prophet
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[11.1] Alif Lam Ra (This is) a Book, whose verses are made decisive, then
are they made plain, from the Wise, All-aware:
[11.2] That you shall not serve (any) but Allah; surely I am a warner for
you from Him and a giver of good news,
[11.3] And you that ask forgiveness of your Lord, then turn to Him; He will
provide you with a goodly provision to an appointed term and bestow His
grace on every one endowed with grace, and if you turn back, then surely I
fear for you the chastisement of a great day.
[11.4] To Allah is your return, and He has power over all things.
[11.5] Now surely they fold up their breasts that they may conceal (their
enmity) from Him; now surely, when they use their garments as a covering, He
knows what they conceal and what they make public; surely He knows what is
in the breasts.
[11.6] And there is no animal in the earth but on Allah is the sustenance of
it, and He knows its resting place and its depository all (things) are in a
manifest book.
[11.7] And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods--
and His dominion (extends) on the water-- that He might manifest to you,
which of you is best in action, and if you say, surely you shall be raised
up after death, those who disbelieve would certainly say: This is nothing
but clear magic.
[11.8] And if We hold back from them the punishment until a stated period of
time, they will certainly say: What prevents it? Now surely on the day when
it will come to them, it shall not be averted from them and that which they
scoffed at shall beset them.
[11.9] And if We make man taste mercy from Us, then take it off from him,
most surely he is despairing, ungrateful.
[11.10] And if We make him taste a favor after distress has afflicted him,
he will certainly say: The evils are gone away from me. Most surely he is
exulting, boasting;
[11.11] Except those who are patient and do good, they shall have
forgiveness and a great reward.
[11.12] Then, it may be that you will give up part of what is revealed to
you and your breast will become straitened by it because they say: Why has
not a treasure been sent down upon him or an angel come with him? You are
only a warner; and Allah is custodian over all things.
[11.13] Or, do they say: He has forged it. Say: Then bring ten forged
chapters like it and call upon whom you can besides Allah, if you are
truthful.
[11.14] But if they do not answer you, then know that it is revealed by
Allah's knowledge and that there is no god but He; will you then submit?
[11.15] Whoever desires this world's life and its finery, We will pay them
in full their deeds therein, and they shall not be made to. suffer loss in
respect of them.
[11.16] These are they for whom there is nothing but fire in the hereafter,
and what they wrought in it shall go for nothing, and vain is what they do.
[11.17] Is he then who has with him clear proof from his Lord, and a witness
from Him recites it and before it (is) the Book of Musa, a guide and a
mercy? These believe in it; and whoever of the (different) parties
disbelieves in it, surely it is the truth from your Lord, but most men do
not believe.
[11.18] And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah? These
shall be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses shall say: These are
they who lied against their Lord. Now surely the curse of Allah is on the
unjust.
[11.19] Who turn away from the path of Allah and desire to make it crooked;
and they are disbelievers in the hereafter.
[11.20] These shall not escape in the earth, nor shall they have any
guardians besides Allah; the punishment shall be doubled for them, they
could not bear to hear and they did not see.
[11.21] These are they who have lost their souls, and what they forged is
gone from them.
[11.22] Truly in the hereafter they are the greatest losers.
[11.23] Surely (as to) those who believe and do good and humble themselves
to their Lord, these are the dwellers of the garden, in it they will abide.
[11.24] The likeness of the two parties is as the blind and the deaf and the
seeing and the hearing: are they equal in condition? Will you not then mind?
[11.25] And certainly We sent Nuh to his people: Surely I am a plain warner
for you:
[11.26] That you shall not serve any but Allah, surely I fear for you the
punishment of a painful day.
[11.27] But the chiefs of those who disbelieved from among his people said:
We do not consider you but a mortal like ourselves, and we do not see any
have followed you but those who are the meanest of us at first thought and
we do not see in you any excellence over us; nay, we deem you liars.
[11.28] He said: O my people! tell me if I have with me clear proof from my
Lord, and He has granted me mercy from Himself and it has been made obscure
to you; shall we constrain you to (accept) it while you are averse from it?
[11.29] And, O my people! I ask you not for wealth in return for it; my
reward is only with Allah and I am not going to drive away those who
believe; surely they shall meet their Lord, but I consider you a people who
are ignorant:
[11.30] And, O my people! who will help me against Allah if I drive them
away? Will you not then mind?
[11.31] And I do not say to you that I have the treasures of Allah and I do
not know the unseen, nor do I say that I am an angel, nor do I say about
those whom your eyes hold in mean estimation (that) Allah will never grant
them (any) good-- Allah knows best what is in their souls-- for then most
surely I should be of the unjust.
[11.32] They said: O Nuh! indeed you have disputed with us and lengthened
dispute with us, therefore bring to us what you threaten us with, if you are
of the truthful ones.
[11.33] He said: Allah only will bring it to you if He please, and you will
not escape:
[11.34] And if I intend to give you good advice, my advice will not profit
you if Allah intended that He should leave you to go astray; He is your
Lord, and to Him shall you be returned.
[11.35] Or do they say: He has forged it? Say: If I have forged it, on me is
my guilt, and I am clear of that of which you are guilty.
[11.36] And it was revealed to Nuh: That none of your people will believe
except those who have already believed, therefore do not grieve at what they
do:
[11.37] And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation,
and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall
be drowned.
[11.38] And he began to make the ark; and whenever the chiefs from among his
people passed by him they laughed at him. He said: If you laugh at us,
surely we too laugh at you as you laugh (at us).
[11.39] So shall you know who it is on whom will come a chastisement which
will disgrace him, and on whom will lasting chastisement come down.
[11.40] Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We
said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family-- except
those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe.
And there believed not with him but a few.
[11.41] And he said: Embark in it, in the name of Allah be its sailing and
its anchoring; most surely my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
[11.42] And it moved on with them amid waves like mountains; and Nuh called
out to his son, and he was aloof: O my son! embark with us and be not with
the unbelievers.
[11.43] He said: I will betake myself for refuge to a mountain that shall
protect me from the water. Nuh said: There is no protector today from
Allah's punishment but He Who has mercy; and a wave intervened between them,
so he was of the drowned.
[11.44] And it was said: O earth, swallow down your water, and O cloud,
clear away; and the water was made to abate and the affair was decided, and
the ark rested on the Judi, and it was said: Away with the unjust people.
[11.45] And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said: My Lord! surely my son is of
my family, and Thy promise is surely true, and Thou art the most just of the
judges.
[11.46] He said: O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the
doer of) other than good deeds, therefore ask not of Me that of which you
have no knowledge; surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant
[11.47] He said: My Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from asking Thee that of
which I have no knowledge; and if Thou shouldst not forgive me and have
mercy on me, I should be of the losers.
[11.48] It was said: O Nuh! descend with peace from Us and blessings on you
and on the people from among those who are with you, and there shall be
nations whom We will afford provisions, then a painful punishment from Us
shall afflict them.
[11.49] These are announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to
you, you did not know them-- (neither) you nor your people-- before this;
therefore be patient; surely the end is for those who guard (against evil).
[11.50] And to Ad (We sent) their brother Hud. He said: O my people! serve
Allah, you have no god other than He; you are nothing but forgers (of lies).
[11.51] O my people! I do not ask of you any reward for it; my reward is
only with Him Who created me; do you not then understand?
[11.52] And, O my people! ask forgiveness of your Lord, then turn to Him; He
will send on you clouds pouring down abundance of rain and add strength to
your strength, and do not turn back guilty.
[11.53] They said: O Hud! you have not brought to us any clear argument and
we are not going to desert our gods for your word, and we are not believers
in you:
[11.54] We cannot say aught but that some of our gods have smitten you with
evil. He said: Surely I call Allah to witness, and do you bear witness too,
that I am clear of what you associate (with Allah).
[11.55] Besides Him, therefore scheme against me all together; then give me
no respite:
[11.56] Surely I rely on Allah, my Lord and your Lord; there is no living
creature but He holds it by its forelock; surely my Lord is on the right
path.
[11.57] But if you turn back, then indeed I have delivered to you the
message with which I have been sent to you, and my Lord will bring another
people in your place, and you cannot do Him any harm; surely my Lord is the
Preserver of all things.
[11.58] And when Our decree came to pass, We delivered Hud and those who
believed with him with mercy from Us, and We delivered them from a hard
chastisement.
[11.59] And this was Ad; they denied the communications of their Lord, and
disobeyed His apostles and followed the bidding of every insolent opposer
(of truth).
[11.60] And they were overtaken by curse in this world and on the
resurrection day; now surely Ad disbelieved in their Lord; now surely, away
with Ad, the people of Hud.
[11.61] And to Samood (We sent) their brother Salih. He said: O my people!
serve Allah, you have no god other than He; He brought you into being from
the earth, and made you dwell in it, therefore ask forgiveness of Him, then
turn to Him; surely my Lord is Nigh, Answering.
[11.62] They said: O Salih! surely you were one amongst us in whom great
expectations were placed before this; do you (now) forbid us from
worshipping what our fathers worshipped? And as to that which you call us
to, most surely we are in disquieting doubt.
[11.63] He said: O my people! tell me if I have clear proof from my Lord and
He has granted to me mercy from Himself-- who will then help me against
Allah if I disobey Him? Therefore you do not add to me other than loss:
[11.64] And, O my people! this will be (as) Allah's she-camel for you, a
sign; therefore leave her to pasture on Allah's earth and do not touch her
with evil, for then a near chastisement will overtake you.
[11.65] But they slew her, so he said: Enjoy yourselves in your abode for
three days, that is a promise not to be belied.
[11.66] So when Our decree came to pass, We delivered Salih and those who
believed with him by mercy from Us, and (We saved them) from the disgrace of
that day; surely your Lord is the Strong, the Mighty.
[11.67] And the rumbling overtook those who were unjust, so they became
motionless bodies in their abodes,
[11.68] As though they had never dwelt in them; now surely did Samood
disbelieve in their Lord; now surely, away with Samood.
[11.69] And certainly Our messengers came to Ibrahim with good news. They
said: Peace. Peace, said he, and he made no delay in bringing a roasted
calf.
[11.70] But when he saw that their hands were not extended towards it, he
deemed them strange and conceived fear of them. . They said: Fear not,
surely we are sent to Lut's people.
[11.71] And his wife was standing (by), so she laughed, then We gave her the
good news of Ishaq and after Ishaq of (a son's son) Yaqoub.
[11.72] She said: O wonder! shall I bear a son when I am an extremely old
woman and this my husband an extremely old man? Most surely this is a
wonderful thing.
[11.73] They said: Do you wonder at Allah's bidding? The mercy of Allah and
His blessings are on you, O people of the house, surely He is Praised,
Glorious.
[11.74] So when fear had gone away from Ibrahim and good news came to him,
he began to plead with Us for Lut's people.
[11.75] Most surely Ibrahim was forbearing, tender-hearted, oft-returning
(to Allah):
[11.76] O Ibrahim! leave off this, surely the decree of your Lord has come
to pass, and surely there must come to them a chastisement that cannot be
averted.
[11.77] And when Our messengers came to Lut, he was grieved for them, and he
lacked strength to protect them, and said: This is a hard day.
[11.78] And his people came to him, (as if) rushed on towards him, and
already they did evil deeds. He said: O my people! these are my daughters--
they are purer for you, so guard against (the punishment of) Allah and do
not disgrace me with regard to my guests; is there not among you one
right-minded man?
[11.79] They said: Certainly you know that we have no claim on your
daughters, and most surely you know what we desire.
[11.80] He said: Ah! that I had power to suppress you, rather I shall have
recourse to a strong support.
[11.81] They said: O Lut! we are the messengers of your Lord; they shall by
no means reach you; so remove your followers in a part of the night-- and
let none of you turn back-- except your wife, for surely whatsoever befalls
them shall befall her; surely their appointed time is the morning; is not
the morning nigh?
[11.82] So when Our decree came to pass, We turned them upside down and
rained down upon them stones, of what had been decreed, one after another.
[11.83] Marked (for punishment) with your Lord and it is not far off from
the unjust.
[11.84] And to Madyan (We sent) their brother Shu'aib. He said: O my people!
serve Allah, you have no god other than He, and do not give short measure
and weight: surely I see you in prosperity and surely I fear for you the
punishment of an all-encompassing day.
[11.85] And, O my people! give full measure and weight fairly, and defraud
not men their things, and do not act corruptly in the land, making mischief:
[11.86] What remains with Allah is better for you if you are believers, and
I am not a keeper over you.
[11.87] They said: O Shu'aib! does your prayer enjoin you that we should
forsake what our fathers worshipped or that we should not do what we please
with regard to our property? Forsooth you are the forbearing, the
right-directing one.
[11.88] He said: O my people! have you considered if I have a clear proof
from my Lord and He has given me a goodly sustenance from Himself, and I do
not desire that in opposition to you I should betake myself to that which I
forbid you: I desire nothing but reform so far as I am able, and with none
but Allah is the direction of my affair to a right issue; on Him do I rely
and to Him do I turn:
[11.89] And, O my people! let not opposition to me make you guilty so that
there may befall you the like of what befell the people of Nuh, or the
people of Hud, or the people of Salih, nor are the people of Lut far off
from you;
[11.90] And ask forgiveness of your Lord, then turn to Him; surely my Lord
is Merciful, Loving-kind.
[11.91] They said: O Shu'aib! we do not understand much of what you say and
most surely we see you to be weak among us, and were it not for your family
we would surely stone you, and you are not mighty against us.
[11.92] He said: O my people! is my family more esteemed by you than Allah?
And you neglect Him as a thing cast behind your back; surely my Lord
encompasses what you do:
[11.93] And, O my people! act according to your ability, I too am acting;
you will come to know soon who it is on whom will light the punishment that
will disgrace him and who it is that is a liar, and watch, surely I too am
watching with you.
[11.94] And when Our decree came to pass We delivered Shu'aib, and those who
believed with him by mercy from Us, and the rumbling overtook those who were
unjust so they became motionless bodies in their abodes,
[11.95] As though they had never dwelt in them; now surely perdition
overtook Madyan as had perished Samood.
[11.96] And certainly We sent Musa with Our communications and a clear
authority,
[11.97] To Firon and his chiefs, but they followed the bidding of Firon, and
Firon's bidding was not right-directing.
[11.98] He shall lead his people on the resurrection day, and bring them
down to the fire; and evil the place to which they are brought.
[11.99] And they are overtaken by curse in this (world), and on the
resurrection day, evil the gift which shall be given.
[11.100] This is an account of (the fate of) the towns which We relate to
you; of them are some that stand and (others) mown down.
[11.101] And We did not do them injustice, but they were unjust to
themselves, so their gods whom they called upon besides Allah did not avail
them aught when the decree of your Lord came to pass; and they added but to
their ruin.
[11.102] And such is the punishment of your Lord when He punishes the towns
while they are unjust; surely His punishment is painful, severe.
[11.103] Most surely there is a sign in this for him who fears the
chastisement of the hereafter; this is a day on which the people shall be
gathered together and this is a day that shall be witnessed.
[11.104] And We do not delay it but to an appointed term.
[11.105] On the day when it shall come, no soul shall speak except with His
permission, then (some) of them shall be unhappy and (others) happy.
[11.106] So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them
shall be sighing and groaning in it:
[11.107] Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except
as your Lord please; surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends.
[11.108] And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden,
abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your
Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.
[11.109] Therefore be not in doubt as to what these worship; they do not
worship but as their fathers worshipped before; and most surely We will pay
them back in full their portion undiminished.
[11.110] And certainly We gave the book to Musa, but it was gone against;
and had not a word gone forth from your Lord, the matter would surely have
been decided between them; and surely they are in a disquieting doubt about
it.
[11.111] And your Lord will most surely pay back to all their deeds in full;
surely He is aware of what they do.
[11.112] Continue then in the right way as you are commanded, as also he who
has turned (to Allah) with you, and be not inordinate (O men!), surely He
sees what you do.
[11.113] And do not incline to those who are unjust, lest the fire touch
you, and you have no guardians besides Allah, then you shall not be helped.
[11.114] And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first
hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds this is a
reminder to the mindful.
[11.115] And be patient, for surely Allah does not waste the reward of the
good-doers.
[11.116] But why were there not among the generations before you those
possessing understanding, who should have forbidden the making of mischief
in the earth, except a few of those whom We delivered from among them? And
those who were unjust went after what they are made to enjoy of plenty, and
they were guilty.
[11.117] And it did not beseem your Lord to have destroyed the towns
tyrannously, while their people acted well.
[11.118] And if your Lord had pleased He would certainly have made people a
single nation, and they shall continue to differ.
[11.119] Except those on whom your Lord has mercy; and for this did He
create them; and the word of your Lord is fulfilled: Certainly I will fill
hell with the jinn and the men, all together.
[11.120] And all we relate to you of the accounts of the apostles is to
strengthen your heart therewith; and in this has come to you the truth and
an admonition, and a reminder to the believers.
[11.121] And say to those who do not believe: Act according to your state;
surely we too are acting.
[11.122] And wait; surely we are waiting also.
[11.123] And Allah's is the unseen in the heavens and the earth, and to Him
is returned the whole of the affair; therefore serve Him and rely on Him,
and your Lord is not heedless of what you do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Praetorian:
Boy ... it sure does take a hell of a long time for this thread to load
.. HAhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
The Koran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Prophets
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[21.1] Their reckoning has drawn near to men, and in heedlessness are
they turning aside.
[21.2] There comes not to them a new reminder from their Lord but they hear
it while they sport,
[21.3] Their hearts trifling; and those who are unjust counsel together in
secret: He is nothing but a mortal like yourselves; what! will you then
yield to enchantment while you see?
[21.4] He said: My Lord knows what is spoken in the heaven and the earth,
and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
[21.5] Nay! say they: Medleys of dreams; nay! he has forged it; nay! he is a
poet; so let him bring to us a sign as the former (prophets) were sent
(with).
[21.6] There did not believe before them any town which We destroyed, will
they then believe?
[21.7] And We did not send before you any but men to whom We sent
revelation, so ask the followers of the reminder if you do not
[21.8] And We did not make them bodies not eating the food, and they were
not to abide (forever).
[21.9] Then We made Our promise good to them, so We delivered them and those
whom We pleased, and We destroyed the ex
[21.10] Certainly We have revealed to you a Book in which is your good
remembrance; what! do you not then understand?
[21.11] And how many a town which was iniquitous did We demolish, and We
raised up after it another people!
[21.12] So when they felt Our punishment, lo! they began to fly
[21.13] Do not fly (now) and come back to what you were made to lead easy
lives in and to your dwellings, haply you will be questioned.
[21.14] They said: O woe to us! surely we were unjust.
[21.15] And this ceased not to be their cry till We made them cut
[21.16] And We did not create the heaven and the earth and what is between
them for sport.
[21.17] Had We wished to make a diversion, We would have made it from before
Ourselves: by no means would We do (it).
[21.18] Nay! We cast the truth against the falsehood, so that it breaks its
head, and lo! it vanishes; and woe to you for what you describe;
[21.19] And whoever is in the heavens and the earth is His; and those who
are with Him are not proud to serve Him, nor do they grow weary.
[21.20] They glorify (Him) by night and day; they are never languid.
[21.21] Or have they taken gods from the earth who raise (the dead).
[21.22] If there had been in them any gods except Allah, they would both
have certainly been in a state of disorder; therefore glory be to Allah, the
Lord of the dominion, above what they attribute (to Him).
[21.23] He cannot be questioned concerning what He does and they shall be
questioned.
[21.24] Or, have they taken gods besides Him? Say: Bring your proof; this is
the reminder of those with me and the reminder of those before me. Nay! most
of them do not know the truth, so they turn aside.
[21.25] And We did not send before you any apostle but We revealed to him
that there is no god but Me, therefore serve Me.
[21.26] And they say: The Beneficent God has taken to Himself a ! son. Glory
be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants
[21.27] They do not precede Him in speech and (only) according to His
commandment do they act.
[21.28] He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they do
not intercede except for him whom He approves and for fear of Him they
tremble.
[21.29] And whoever of them should say: Surely I am a god besides Him, such
a one do We recompense with hell; thus do, We recompense the unjust.
[21.30] Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were
closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything
living, will they not then believe?
[21.31] And We have made great mountains in the earth lest it might be
convulsed with them, and We have made in it wide ways that they may follow a
right direction.
[21.32] And We have made the heaven a guarded canopy and (yet) they turn
aside from its signs.
[21.33] And He it is Who created the night and the day and the sun and the
moon; all (orbs) travel along swiftly in their celestial spheres.
[21.34] And We did not ordain abiding for any mortal before you. What! Then
if you die, will they abide?
[21.35] Every soul must taste of death and We try you by evil and good by
way of probation; and to Us you shall be brought back.
[21.36] And when those who disbelieve see you, they do not take you but for
one to be scoffed at: Is this he who speaks of your gods? And they are
deniers at the mention of the Beneficent God.
[21.37] Man is created of haste; now will I show to you My signs, therefore
do not ask Me to hasten (them) on.
[21.38] And they say: When will this threat come to pass if you are
truthful?
[21.39] Had those who disbelieve but known (of the time) when they shall not
be able to ward off the fire from their faces nor from their backs, nor
shall they be helped.
[21.40] Nay, it shall come on them all of a sudden and cause them to become
confounded, so they shall not have the power to avert it, nor shall they be
respited.
[21.41] And certainly apostles before you were scoffed at, then there befell
those of them who scoffed that at which they had scoffed.
[21.42] Say: Who guards you by night and by day from the Beneficent God?
Nay, they turn aside at the mention of their Lord.
[21.43] Or, have they gods who can defend them against Us? They shall not be
able to assist themselves, nor shall they be defended from Us.
[21.44] Nay, We gave provision to these and their fathers until life was
prolonged to them. Do they not then see that We are visiting the land,
curtailing it of its sides? Shall they then prevail?
[21.45] Say: I warn you only by revelation; and the deaf do not hear the
call whenever they are warned.
[21.46] And if a blast of the chastisement of your Lord were to touch them,
they will certainly say: O woe to us! surely we were unjust.
[21.47] And We will set up a just balance on the day of resurrection, so no
soul shall be dealt with unjustly in the least; and though there be the
weight of a grain of mustard seed, (yet) will We bring it, and sufficient
are We to take account.
[21.48] And certainly We gave to Musa and Haroun the Furqan and a light and
a reminder for those who would guard (against evil).
[21.49] (For) those who fear their Lord in secret and they are fearful of
the hour.
[21.50] And this is a blessed Reminder which We have revealed; will you then
deny it?
[21.51] And certainly We gave to Ibrahim his rectitude before, and We knew
him fully well.
[21.52] When he said to his father and his people: What are these images to
whose worship you cleave?
[21.53] They said: We found our fathers worshipping them.
[21.54] He said: Certainly you have been, (both) you and your fathers, in
manifest error.
[21.55] They said: Have you brought to us the truth, or are you one of the
triflers?
[21.56] He said: Nay! your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth,
Who brought them into existence, and I am of those who bear witness to this:
[21.57] And, by Allah! I will certainly do something against your idols
after you go away, turning back.
[21.58] So he broke them into pieces, except the chief of them, that haply
they may return to it.
[21.59] They said: Who has done this to our gods? Most surely he is one of
the unjust.
[21.60] They said: We heard a youth called Ibrahim speak of them.
[21.61] Said they: Then bring him before the eyes of the people, perhaps
they may bear witness.
[21.62] They said: Have you done this to our gods, O Ibrahim?
[21.63] He said: Surely (some doer) has done it; the chief of them is this,
therefore ask them, if they can speak.
[21.64] Then they turned to themselves and said: Surely you yourselves are
the unjust;
[21.65] Then they were made to hang down their heads: Certainly you know
that they do not speak.
[21.66] He said:.What! do you then serve besides Allah what brings you not
any benefit at all, nor does it harm you?
[21.67] Fie on you and on what you serve besides Allah; what! do you not
then understand?
[21.68] They said: Burn him and help your gods, if you are going to do
(anything).
[21.69] We said: O fire! be a comfort and peace to Ibrahim;
[21.70] And they desired a war on him, but We made them the greatest losers.
[21.71] And We delivered him as well as Lut (removing them) to the land
which We had blessed for all people.
[21.72] And We gave him Ishaq and Yaqoub, a son's son, and We made (them)
all good.
[21.73] And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We
revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the
giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve;
[21.74] And (as for) Lut, We gave him wisdom and knowledge, and We delivered
him from the town which wrought abominations; surely they were an evil
people, transgressors;
[21.75] And We took him into Our mercy; surely he was of the good.
[21.76] And Nuh, when he cried aforetime, so We answered him, and delivered
him and his followers from the great calamity.
[21.77] And We helped him against the people who rejected Our
communications; surely they were an evil people, so We drowned them all.
[21.78] And Dawood and Sulaiman when they gave judgment concerning the field
when the people's sheep pastured therein by night, and We were bearers of
witness to their judgment.
[21.79] So We.made Sulaiman to understand it; and to each one We gave wisdom
and knowledge; and We made the mountains, and the birds to celebrate Our
praise with Dawood; and We were the doers.
[21.80] And We taught him the making of coats of mail for you, that they
might protect you in your wars; will you then be grateful?
[21.81] And (We made subservient) to Sulaiman the wind blowing violent,
pursuing its course by his command to the land which We had blessed, and We
are knower of ail things.
[21.82] And of the rebellious people there were those who dived for him and
did other work besides that, and We kept guard over them;
[21.83] And Ayub, when he cried to his Lord, (saying): Harm has afflicted
me, and Thou art the most Merciful of the merciful.
[21.84] Therefore We responded to him and took off what harm he had, and We
gave him his family and the like of them with them: a mercy from Us and a
reminder to the worshippers.
[21.85] And Ismail and Idris and Zulkifl; all were of the patient ones;
[21.86] And We caused them to enter into Our mercy, surely they were of the
good ones.
[21.87] And Yunus, when he went away in wrath, so he thought that We would
not straiten him, so he called out among afflictions: There is no god but
Thou, glory be to Thee; surely I am of those who make themselves to suffer
loss.
[21.88] So We responded to him and delivered him from the grief and thus do
We deliver the believers.
[21.89] And Zakariya, when he cried to his Lord: O my Lord leave me not
alone; and Thou art the best of inheritors.
[21.90] So We responded to him and gave him Yahya and made his wife fit for
him; surely they used to hasten, one with another In deeds of goodness and
to call upon Us, hoping and fearing and they were humble before Us.
[21.91] And she who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our
inspiration and made her and her son a sign for the nations.
[21.92] Surely this Islam is your religion, one religion (only), and I am
your Lord, therefore serve Me.
[21.93] And they broke their religion (into sects) between them: to Us shall
all come back.
[21.94] Therefore whoever shall do of good deeds and he is a believer, there
shall be no denying of his exertion, and surely We will write (It) down for
him.
[21.95] And it is binding on a town which We destroy that they shall not
return.
[21.96] Even when Gog and Magog are let loose and they shall break forth
from every elevated place.
[21.97] And the true promise shall draw nigh, then lo! the eyes of those who
disbelieved shall be fixedly open: O woe to us! surely we were m a state of
heedlessness as to this; nay, we were unjust.
[21.98] Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of
hell; to it you shall come.
[21.99] Had these been gods, they would not have come to it and all shall
abide therein.
[21.100] For them therein shall be groaning and therein they shall not hear.
[21.101] Surely (as for) those for whom the good has already gone forth from
Us, they shall be kept far off from it;
[21.102] They will not hear its faintest sound, and they shall abide in that
which their souls long for.
[21.103] The great fearful event shall not grieve them, and the angels shall
meet them: This is your day which you were promised.
[21.104] On the day when We will roll up heaven like the rolling up of the
scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall
reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about.
[21.105] And certainly We wrote in the Book after the reminder that (as for)
the land, My righteous servants shall inherit it.
[21.106] Most surely in this is a message to a people who serve
[21.107] And We have hot sent you but as a mercy to the worlds.
[21.108] Say: It is only revealed to me that your God is one God; will you
then submit?
[21.109] But if they turn back, say: I have given you warning m fairness and
I do not know whether what you are threatened with is near or far:
[21.110] Surely He knows what is spoken openly and He knows what you hide:
[21.111] And I do not know if this may be a trial for you and a provision
till a time.
[21.112] He said: O my Lord! judge Thou with truth; and our Lord is the
Beneficent God, Whose help is sought against what you ascribe (to Him).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for someting completely different

The Koran
IP:
Logged
Praetorian
Senior Member
posted
August 05, 2002 07:41 AM
This has gotta be the mother of all threads now ... And yeeee going back
to bible basics again ... TALLY HOOOOOOO
To the Romans
1 Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ and called to be an apostle, separated to
God's good news, 2 which he promised aforetime through his prophets in the
holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who sprang from the seed of David
according to the flesh, 4 but who with power was declared God's Son
according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the
dead-yes, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we received undeserved
kindness and an apostleship in order that there might be obedience of faith
among all the nations respecting his name, 6 among which [nations] YOU also
are those called to belong to Jesus Christ- 7 to all those who are in Rome
as God's beloved ones, called to be holy ones:
May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the]
Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First of all, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ concerning all
of YOU, because YOUR faith is talked about throughout the whole world. 9 For
God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the
good news about his Son, is my witness of how without ceasing I always make
mention of YOU in my prayers, 10 begging that if at all possible I may now
at last be prospered in the will of God so as to come to YOU. 11 For I am
longing to see YOU, that I may impart some spiritual gift to YOU in order
for YOU to be made firm; 12 or, rather, that there may be an interchange of
encouragement among YOU, by each one through the other's faith, both YOURS
and mine.
13 But I do not want YOU to fail to know, brothers, that I many times
purposed to come to YOU, but I have been hindered until now, in order that I
might acquire some fruitage also among YOU even as among the rest of the
nations. 14 Both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to wise and to senseless
ones I am a debtor: 15 so there is eagerness on my part to declare the good
news also to YOU there in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the good news; it
is, in fact, God's power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew
first and also to the Greek; 17 for in it God's righteousness is being
revealed by reason of faith and toward faith, just as it is written: "But
the righteous one-by means of faith he will live."
18 For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way,
19 because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made
it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from
the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made,
even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; 21
because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did
they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their
unintelligent heart became darkened. 22 Although asserting they were wise,
they became foolish 23 and turned the glory of the incorruptible God into
something like the image of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed
creatures and creeping things.
24 Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up
to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, 25 even
those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered
sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is
blessed forever. Amen. 26 That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual
appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into
one contrary to nature; 27 and likewise even the males left the natural use
of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one
another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in
themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.
28 And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge,
God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not
fitting, 29 filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness,
covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious
disposition, being whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent,
haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to
parents, 31 without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural
affection, merciless. 32 Although these know full well the righteous decree
of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not
only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.
2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are, if you judge; for
in the thing in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, inasmuch as
you that judge practice the same things. 2 Now we know that the judgment of
God is, in accord with truth, against those who practice such things.
3 But do you have this idea, O man, while you judge those who practice such
things and yet you do them, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or
do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and
long-suffering, because you do not know that the kindly [quality] of God is
trying to lead you to repentance? 5 But according to your hardness and
unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath
and of the revealing of God's righteous judgment. 6 And he will render to
each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking
glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good; 8
however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey
unrighteousness there will be wrath and anger, 9 tribulation and distress,
upon the soul of every man who works what is injurious, of the Jew first and
also of the Greek; 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works
what is good, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 11 For there is no
partiality with God.
12 For instance, all those who sinned without law will also perish without
law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the
hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law
will be declared righteous. 14 For whenever people of the nations that do
not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not
having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who
demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their
conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts,
they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will be in the day when God
through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the
good news I declare.
17 If, now, you are a Jew in name and are resting upon law and taking pride
in God, 18 and you know his will and approve of things that are excellent
because you are orally instructed out of the Law; 19 and you are persuaded
that you are a guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, 20 a
corrector of the unreasonable ones, a teacher of babes, and having the
framework of the knowledge and of the truth in the Law- 21 do you, however,
the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching
"Do not steal," do you steal? 22 You, the one saying "Do not commit
adultery," do you commit adultery? You, the one expressing abhorrence of the
idols, do you rob temples? 23 You, who take pride in law, do you by your
transgressing of the Law dishonor God? 24 For "the name of God is being
blasphemed on account of YOU people among the nations"; just as it is
written.
25 Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you
are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26
If, therefore, an uncircumcised person keeps the righteous requirements of
the Law, his uncircumcision will be counted as circumcision, will it not? 27
And the uncircumcised [person] that is such by nature will, by carrying out
the Law, judge you who with its written code and circumcision are a
transgressor of law. 28 For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor
is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. 29 But he is a
Jew who is one on the inside, and [his] circumcision is that of the heart by
spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from
men, but from God.
3 What, then, is the superiority of the Jew, or what is the benefit of the
circumcision? 2 A great deal in every way. First of all, because they were
entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God. 3 What, then, [is the
case]? If some did not express faith, will their lack of faith perhaps make
the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Never may that happen! But let God
be found true, though every man be found a liar, even as it is written:
"That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are
being judged." 5 However, if our unrighteousness brings God's righteousness
to the fore, what shall we say? God is not unjust when he vents his wrath,
is he? (I am speaking as a man does.) 6 Never may that happen! How,
otherwise, will God judge the world?
7 Yet if by reason of my lie the truth of God has been made more prominent
to his glory, why am I also yet being j | |